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Old 04-26-2019, 05:30 PM   #57
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Hey guys, thanks for all the replies both Pro and Con. It's important to understand that my lithium article is in place only to provide general information to RV owners who are considering purchasing a lithium upgraded coach or for those who are considering a possible lithium upgrade to their present RV.

In addition to provide information of this new concept, the article focused on some key issues that “extended idle charging” leads to damage to the diesel engine, turbo and additionally creates the need of extra “Forced DPF Regeneration” which consumes from 1-3 gallons of fuel for each event.

Another downfall of stationary engine charging is the fact with the lack of frontal air to aid in cooling, there are high levels of ambient heat which not only heat the coaches living space, but also causes heat related damage to the electrical components to include 2nd alternators bearings and windings, which has been the main factor in their 70-90% failure rate. One of my sources advised me that ADF Sprinters in San Fernando, a leading company for 2nd alternator installations, had to replace nearly every alternator they installed for high idle charging and presently no longer provides that service.

In addition to this insane heat, the exhaust from diesel engine running at 1600 rpm as it mixes with DEF, creates a absolute horrible ammonia smell, making stationary charging almost unsustainable if your near the vehicle.

Finally, my published fuel findings were compiled with actual conversations with technical personal at most every major lithium and 2nd alternator manufactures such as; Lithionics, Volta, Xantrex, Nations Battery, Relion, Mercedes, Martin Marietta Aerospace technicians, plus confirmed further by conversations with end users polled at campgrounds, events and RV shows.

The fuel usage I specified is accurate and even conservative in every respect. If anyone feels this information is not correct, rather than just speculate, I encourage them to spend at 12 months as I did to compile accurate data, rather than just to make Googled assumptions.

For those who are following my writings, I also have two other articles in the works, where I’ll provide in-depth articles on upgrading both a Midwest Sprinter B van and a Leisure Travel Wonder type C coach.

Best Regards - Mike
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Old 04-26-2019, 06:29 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Idleup View Post
Hey guys, thanks for all the replies both Pro and Con. It's important to understand that my lithium article is in place only to provide general information to RV owners who are considering purchasing a lithium upgraded coach or for those who are considering a possible lithium upgrade to their present RV.
You seem to be providing very specific information, and some of those specific claims do not seem to match any verifiable information, you are basically saying "trust me I'm an expert".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idleup View Post
In addition to provide information of this new concept, the article focused on some key issues that “extended idle charging” leads to damage to the diesel engine, turbo and additionally creates the need of extra “Forced DPF Regeneration” which consumes from 1-3 gallons of fuel for each event.
Again "trust me" nothing verifiable, and it seems you need to use a diagnostic tool to do a "forced regeneration" if the vehicle does the regeneration, that's simply a normal regeneration. This is semantics, but "forced regeneration" seems to have a specific meaning and is being used inaccurately.

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Originally Posted by Idleup View Post
Another downfall of stationary engine charging is the fact with the lack of frontal air to aid in cooling, there are high levels of ambient heat which not only heat the coaches living space, but also causes heat related damage to the electrical components to include 2nd alternators bearings and windings, which has been the main factor in their 70-90% failure rate. One of my sources advised me that ADF Sprinters in San Fernando, a leading company for 2nd alternator installations, had to replace nearly every alternator they installed for high idle charging and presently no longer provides that service.
Yet Advanced RV seems to still be offering secondary alternators and it seems to be their most popular configuration and claims no failures with their latest version. Using a properly sized one of good quality cost more, but a Onan 2500 propane seems to be about $2500 not including the rest of the propane system.



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Originally Posted by Idleup View Post
In addition to this insane heat, the exhaust from diesel engine running at 1600 rpm as it mixes with DEF, creates a absolute horrible ammonia smell, making stationary charging almost unsustainable if your near the vehicle.
This seems like extreme hyperbole, a properly working DEF system should be catalyzing nearly all ammonia back into nitrogen and water, that is after all its purpose, if ammonia is coming out of the tailpipe then it is being wasted and if you can smell it the dosage is far too high.

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Originally Posted by Idleup View Post
Finally, my published fuel findings were compiled with actual conversations with technical personal at most every major lithium and 2nd alternator manufactures such as; Lithionics, Volta, Xantrex, Nations Battery, Relion, Mercedes, Martin Marietta Aerospace technicians, plus confirmed further by conversations with end users polled at campgrounds, events and RV shows.

The fuel usage I specified is accurate and even conservative in every respect. If anyone feels this information is not correct, rather than just speculate, I encourage them to spend at 12 months as I did to compile accurate data, rather than just to make Googled assumptions.
So it sounds like you haven't even measured for yourself, do you have a scan gauge or similar? Anecdotes are not the same as published scientific studies like I posted where they show diesel engines 2-4 times the displacement consuming much less fuel at idle than your unsubstantiated claims. Not only that other sprinter users report much less fuel usage. You seem be a 4X outlier in your fuel claims. Properly cited studies and measuring my own engines fuel consumption are the opposite of assumptions, and using Google to find the information is a wonderful tool when searching for the truth, why do you continue to criticize it?

I have requests in to some of the listed manufacturers to hopefully get some further information on the claims made.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:04 PM   #59
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Just heard back from Volta on of the vendors mentioned in the article they also question the accuracy and state that they don't know of any actual alternator failures only a few controller failure due to assembly errors.

They also state that they have done a lot of testing with sprinters and have never seen that kind of idle fuel use and pointed to American Transportation Research Institute data that show .8 gph on much larger diesels here is at least one reference (note they are trying to convince you not to idle and sow only .8 gph for a 12+ liter engine: https://afdc.energy.gov/files/u/publ...dling_2015.pdf


They did agree that idling all day is not recommended but it should not be necessary either, they shoot for an hour of idle recharge to get the pack up to near full and they can do up to 8000W in the alternator to do so.

You may want to contact them again for clarification and correction of your facts.
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:59 PM   #60
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Unless you wanted to run a/c...
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Old 04-30-2019, 06:25 AM   #61
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Unless you wanted to run a/c...
Advanced-RV runs the A/C off the lithium pack. They are currently the sole north american distributor of the Houghton Belaire HB2400 unit which pulls around 1000 watts cooling and their largest pack looks to be a 10kwh Volta allowing at least 8 hours of continuous A/C on a full charge.

Paired with the 8000w alternator and their auto start stop with 110 minutes of run-time it would easily recharge the pack to full while running the A/C. Add some solar and it seems like no issue to run the A/C all day with power left over and a single daily alternator run, which gives you 5 days off grid no driving.

Supposedly they are testing a 48v dc Houghton for even greater efficiency running directly off battery instead of inverting.

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Old 06-26-2019, 06:10 AM   #62
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Advanced-RV runs the A/C off the lithium pack. They are currently the sole north american distributor of the Houghton Belaire HB2400 unit which pulls around 1000 watts cooling and their largest pack looks to be a 10kwh Volta allowing at least 8 hours of continuous A/C on a full charge.

Paired with the 8000w alternator and their auto start stop with 110 minutes of run-time it would easily recharge the pack to full while running the A/C. Add some solar and it seems like no issue to run the A/C all day with power left over and a single daily alternator run, which gives you 5 days off grid no driving.

Supposedly they are testing a 48v dc Houghton for even greater efficiency running directly off battery instead of inverting.


Thanks for the reply - Some manufacturers are now working towards making RV AC units quieter. On the reports I've seen, they surely do not warrant replacing your current unit since for the most part, all the roof units are still considered noisy. Right now the best option for noise is buying a coach with ducted air system rather than direct.



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Old 06-26-2019, 07:30 AM   #63
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Thanks for the reply - Some manufacturers are now working towards making RV AC units quieter.
I can't identify the unit they deemed to be the quietest (by a lot), but they show a picture of it on their web site as a replacement unit. No BTU/hr rating, either. Pricey, but quiet. I guess they're not ready to let the cat out of the bag yet, as it seems it's something they're working on importing with an overseas manufacturer.

https://www.upfittersresource.com/co...-benz-sprinter
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:34 AM   #64
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I can't identify the unit they deemed to be the quietest (by a lot), but they show a picture of it on their web site as a replacement unit. No BTU/hr rating, either. Pricey, but quiet. I guess they're not ready to let the cat out of the bag yet, as it seems it's something they're working on importing with an overseas manufacturer.

https://www.upfittersresource.com/co...-benz-sprinter
As I said in my post its a Houghton Belaire HB2400, they are the sole US importer at this time.
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:42 AM   #65
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Thanks for the reply - Some manufacturers are now working towards making RV AC units quieter. On the reports I've seen, they surely do not warrant replacing your current unit since for the most part, all the roof units are still considered noisy. Right now the best option for noise is buying a coach with ducted air system rather than direct.
Considered noisy by who? The unit Advanced RV uses is 3 times quieter than a standard rooftop unit, see for yourself:

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Old 06-26-2019, 08:44 AM   #66
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As I said in my post its a Houghton Belaire HB2400, they are the sole US importer at this time.
Oh, my bad. When I looked at it, I only registered the second reference to Houghton, the 48V, and found nothing on that.

Looks like a really nice unit.
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Old 07-07-2019, 11:40 PM   #67
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I did not read every post, though I did scan all pages, but I am probably going to go with the Travato KL gas B battery coach.

I'm now actually holding off on buying now for two very critical reasons that could pay off big if Winnebago offers them on standard issue Travato GL/KL units any time soon.



1. An option (or may become standard) to get the 33% greater capacity Lithium battery that their limited edition NPS National Park Service Travato gets.


2. That 12v roof AC unit that is now available. I watched an Advanced RV and they owner spoke about selling the unit to other manufacturers. Does he own the patent or something? Anyone know about that?



This would be huge for me!


Talk about boondocking capability!


The gas lithium models only require a 1 hour run time to recharge to 80% I believe. In most instances, you could do this running down the road.


I used to winter camp in my snowmobile trailer in northern Michigan for several years and setup the truck to autostart every three hours and run for one and never had any issues at all for five years.


Unfortunately, it looks like the diesels have other challenges that I will be avoiding. So, for me, gas is the plan...
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:19 PM   #68
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What is the cost of the unit? 12v AC would be nice .. if it works efficiently
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:46 AM   #69
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What is the cost of the unit? 12v AC would be nice .. if it works efficiently

I don't believe they're cheap. The one that Advanced RV highlighted was, I think, 1/3 the noise level. The unit was properly engineered and assembled. You have to see the video.
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:39 PM   #70
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I don't believe they're cheap. The one that Advanced RV highlighted was, I think, 1/3 the noise level. The unit was properly engineered and assembled. You have to see the video.
The Quiet 12v rooftop A/C is listed at $2749 on the ARV site. I believe that price includes installation since they say the price is based on replacing an exiting unit. I am checking into this as I am going to replace my AGM batteries with Lithium and would like to run the a/c off batteries. Switching to a 12v unit will save me from upgrading my inverter, installing a soft start, etc. I can fit 600AH of lithium batteries in the space of my current batteries, so that should give me a few hours of a/c on battery power, plus my fridge, etc. According to Advanced RV, the Quietair is 20% more efficient and several times quieter than the OEM.

I will post here when I get more info from Advanced RV.
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