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Old 08-28-2019, 07:14 AM   #99
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Needless to say, from experience with a stock capacitor, the genset couldn't handle it. With the Easystart, it could. That's proof enough for me it's worth $300.00.

As for the conclusion on this thread that the Onan is a better alternative that a lithium setup, I admit for others this could be true, but for me, not so much.


I previously had a Class B with an Onan LP genset. The Onan Genset I had was loud, smelly, and very unreliable. We rarely used the A/C because we rarely needed it. And when we did, it was a 50/50 gamble it would start. It required 2 hours of exercising a month, which is about 1.9 hours more than I needed it for an entire year. Now, for others than may do a lot of boon-docking where unlimited (except by fuel on board) power is needed, a genset is likely a better choice. But for me, I may need it to run the microwave and worst case scenario a couple of hours of A/C. A 600amp lithium system will do that perfectly. As a backup, if I plan to do more than a night or two of boondocking, I'll bring along a Honda 2200watt genset for emergency backup that will likely never be needed. I will not install a 2nd alternator. I will instead install a DC to DC charger off the alternator to limit the amps, as well as provide the correct voltage to the lithium batteries.

I ordered a new Class B+ to be delivered in a month or so. I specifically did not order the genset, AGM's, 2000 watt inverter, and flex panels that the manufacturer installs at a cost of about $8500.00. Instead, I'll install 600amp lithium batteries, a 3000watt inverter, and 4 100 rigid solar panels. When I add the cost that the factory installed equipment would have been, plus the tax credit I'll get to take, the difference: about $6500.00. I'm more than happy to pay that difference not to have to deal with an Onan genset ever again.

So, while going the lithium route may not be a good idea for everyone, after 11 years of using a Class B with a genset, I'm confident that it is for me.
Sounds like you have a really nice (and expensive) set-up. There's little doubt that lithium will become common place in RV's. However, I still feel that the security of a generator is very important to a RV electrical system. I did the portable Honda generator route for years and believe me, it has baggage with storing and fueling. nothing like having a an Onan in the belly!

I'm just about ready to put up a thread on my lithium upgrade on my LTV Wonder. I've already torn out most of my 110 / 12 wiring and components. This installation will certainly be one of the most high-tech systems out there when I get it finished. I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks for the reply! Mike




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Old 08-28-2019, 08:30 AM   #100
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The way we use or RV, we just rarely have the need for the genset. It's just dead weight of about 200lbs of very rare extra cargo carrying capacity in these small rigs.



My new rig will be a Wonder RTB. So, why was it necessary to tear out the old AC? It would seem to me that all that would be needed is to re-wire the main AC line in from the panel to the inverter as well as the microwave and A/C lines on the panel.



And what's in the big box that you needed a forklift to carry?
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Old 08-28-2019, 12:33 PM   #101
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After I finish the lithium install I will be replacing the roof top AC with a Coleman Mach 10 it only draws around 10 amps is very quiet and Bluetooth.

The coach required a lot of modification to the surge protecter transfer box and modification to the fuse panel plus I needed to 30 amp fuse the new 3012 with 30 amps. The stock wiring is sort of Mickey Mouse LTV just runs the inverter power to a crude box and ties the three 12/2 lines together for inverter power.

The big box is the Lithionics battery and BMS the smaller one is the 3012.

Thanks
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Old 08-29-2019, 08:52 AM   #102
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Mercedes provides a mount on their engine for a second generator. I can't imagine they have banned its use by upfitters. But if true, this discussion would be moot.
It's not worth starting a whole new thread over this simple question, but does anyone know what the dual-alternator arrangement on the MB 3.0L diesel Galleria looks like? Specifically, where is the OEM chassis alternator, and where is the second Li3 system alternator. What is the drive belt scheme; longer single, or two or three belts like the Nations' kit with the green serpentine belt?



Looking at the photo in M. Mas's expose', the only picture I could find of a second alternator is on a van with a transverse engine, probably a Dodge. Photos of the MB 3.0L seem to show the factory alternator tucked in pretty high and tight on the passenger side of the engine, possibly out of sight from above, but that's all I could find.
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Old 08-29-2019, 09:26 AM   #103
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Plural of RV is RVs not RV's.
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:24 AM   #104
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Plural of RV is RVs not RV's.

. . . . . ?
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:38 AM   #105
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Lithium & 2nd Alternators Verses Onan Generators - Mike Mas

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Plural of RV is RVs not RV's.


Yore not rite!!
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:41 AM   #106
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The way we use or RV, we just rarely have the need for the genset. It's just dead weight of about 200lbs of very rare extra cargo carrying capacity in these small rigs.

My new rig will be a Wonder RTB. So, why was it necessary to tear out the old AC? It would seem to me that all that would be needed is to re-wire the main AC line in from the panel to the inverter as well as the microwave and A/C lines on the panel.

And what's in the big box that you needed a forklift to carry?


Thanks for the reply - however having a generator is still vitally important to every RV.

Keep in mind, lithium is only a "Storage" devices to store power. While solar helps it's limited. 2nd alternators come with big baggage of failures, engine problems and wasted fuel. Primary alternators are the safest bet but you have to be traveling.

Regardless of how you twist it having a Onan generator with its "Own Fuel Tank" is the best ingredient for peace of mind and security when you're off the grid.

On my new LTV lithium installation, having a generator plays an important part in the whole system during times when the battery is close to minimum SOC. Keep in mind my Xantrex 3012 can charge up to 150 amps!

I like to think of a Onan the same way I think of my Generic Aux generator at my home, I hope I never have to use it, but when I do, there's nothing like hearing it purr during a power outage.

Regards Mike
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Old 08-29-2019, 06:23 PM   #107
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It's not worth starting a whole new thread over this simple question, but does anyone know what the dual-alternator arrangement on the MB 3.0L diesel Galleria looks like? Specifically, where is the OEM chassis alternator, and where is the second Li3 system alternator. What is the drive belt scheme; longer single, or two or three belts like the Nations' kit with the green serpentine belt?
Never mind. I found a good pic which seems to be representative of what I think has been described.
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Old 08-29-2019, 07:18 PM   #108
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Plural of RV is RVs not RV's.

I think either is correct, but without the apostrophe is probably preferred.
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Old 08-29-2019, 07:25 PM   #109
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Never mind. I found a good pic which seems to be representative of what I think has been described.
No problem glad you found the image. Regretfully they are all mounted too low and exposed to the elements, water, salt, curbs, etc. In addition you have to be careful with wire routing as well.

Benz sells a factory 2nd alternator mount for paramedic units. Just be aware that extended idling will accelerate carbon in the engine and turbo and may damage the DPF voiding your warranty. All idling is logged on the engines processor.

Thanks Mike


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Old 08-29-2019, 11:36 PM   #110
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Thanks for the reply - however having a generator is still vitally important to every RV.

Keep in mind, lithium is only a "Storage" devices to store power. While solar helps it's limited. 2nd alternators come with big baggage of failures, engine problems and wasted fuel. Primary alternators are the safest bet but you have to be traveling.

Regardless of how you twist it having a Onan generator with its "Own Fuel Tank" is the best ingredient for peace of mind and security when you're off the grid.

On my new LTV lithium installation, having a generator plays an important part in the whole system during times when the battery is close to minimum SOC. Keep in mind my Xantrex 3012 can charge up to 150 amps!

I like to think of a Onan the same way I think of my Generic Aux generator at my home, I hope I never have to use it, but when I do, there's nothing like hearing it purr during a power outage.

Regards Mike

The only problem I see with that is that whenever I needed it, it never would start! The way we RV, it never got used, so for us, it's not something we would ever need, even in an emergency. For others that may be the case, but with 11 years behind us, and about 2 hours on the generator when we actually used it for power, I'll take my chances. I'd rather have the extra 200 lbs in cargo carrying capacity. That's something I can use!
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Old 08-30-2019, 08:22 AM   #111
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The only problem I see with that is that whenever I needed it, it never would start! The way we RV, it never got used, so for us, it's not something we would ever need, even in an emergency. For others that may be the case, but with 11 years behind us, and about 2 hours on the generator when we actually used it for power, I'll take my chances. I'd rather have the extra 200 lbs in cargo carrying capacity. That's something I can use!

I fully understand - I have a few friends who never use a generator. It really depends what you do - if you travel campground to campground or travel in cool weather, there is little need for a genny.

Lately, the new generation of B / B+ campers don't want to be in parks. There another hidden use for a generator and that is trade in value, most buyers are expecting a generator.

Regards - Mike
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Old 08-30-2019, 08:22 AM   #112
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Just be aware that extended idling will accelerate carbon in the engine and turbo and may damage the DPF voiding your warranty. All idling is logged on the engines processor.
No worries. I'm actually very well versed in the problems with underloaded Tier IV(f) engines in particular, just not automotive applications. But the problems of underloaded and idling diesels with DPF and EGR systems are the same regardless of application.

Looking forward to your continuing updates on the project.
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