New to class B, looking at the Coachmen Galleria Li3

[CeejP]

Hey guys and gals,

I have bee searching for a class B that I can take boondocking and “off the grid”. So far I have checked out the Winnebago Travato, Pleasurway(not sure which model), and the Coachmen Galleria 24T with Li3.

So far I really like the Galleria over the Pleasureway. I’m interested in learning more about the li3 system vs the geniatir and battery system that’s on the pleasureway.
Does anyone know about the wear and matinence in these?
Is in more beneficial to have a separate generator va running off the vehicle engine?

Any advice would be great!

Thanks!

[Luv2go]

CeejP!

I'm sure you'll get lots of other responses, but we've have had three coaches with generators and the next one will have a second alternator for the house batteries similar to the Li3 system.

With the solar added to the coach (and that you now can get as options from almost all manufacturers), for our use the engine generator is rarely needed and we found we have more hours on it from the monthly maintenance run than we do running it because we need power.

[paddykern]

looked at one two years ago.
No gas stove was a deal breaker.
It came with an induction stove.
Planned to boon-dock and didn't want to start generator to boil water for tea.

Bought a C-/B+ with 3 way refrigerator, propane stove/heat/hot water.
Propane generator.

Happy with my choice.

[Neutron]

I currently bought a 2019 Galleria without the li3 option. So far after 6 months I love it. I do have the upgraded solar. The coach has standard features that are a little above most others we tested. The Sprinter chassis is a work horse. I just added a Nations Hi Output second alternator and I have ordered a Lithionics 600ah Li3 battery and BMS that will be arriving soon. The propane Onan 2500 Watt generator is constantly tripping when running the ac and charging the batteries and the propane consumption is horrendous. We can get a total of about 6 hours of operation per tank and the sun in FL is brutal. I opted to add an "egen"(used for lack of a better term) system because of this and I plan to keep the generator for emergencies off the grid. Be advised that if you are real engineering/electrical savvy you should get the option at purchase or pay someone to do the install later. I actually use the same systems for work so it is somewhat easier. There differences in some of the items you see in the packaged systems vs buying individual components i.e. the firmware in some devices has been modified to match the components. I am putting together a series of pictures as we complete our setup. We will end up with 1000ah of lithium total at completion and 350 watts of solar. with 2 alternators and the Onan generator.

[CeejP]

Thank you so much for the response and insight. I do plan on purchasing the model with the solar and Li3 system. As I plan to live in my rig for at least a year and boondock. I think that this will be a good option for me. I would love to see the pics that you put together!

[nothermark]

It somewhat depends on how you are using the RV. If your plan is for constant touring with occasional stops the engine based alternator just sucks power from vehicle performance. If you plan on parking for a day or two at a time and running the engine a lot just to get power for A/C or an induction cooker you will add a lot of pointless engine hours.

You could not sell me an RV with a propane generator because of the fuel consumption issue. Tanks are small and consumption high. A small diesel generator is a much better idea. I would not buy an induction cooktop as my only cooking source. Propane cooking and water heating is relatively low consumption for either propane or electricity so easy to manage without the hassle of high electricity requirements. It sounds harsh but some problems never get better so why get them in the first place?

[Idleup]

Anyone buying a Galleria better be careful because these salesman have it 100% wrong. For reasons unknown, these guys think the Lithium batteries can replace the generator and they are dead wrong.

If you don't have a generator your going to be required to run your engine and you don't want to be doing that.

It's a giant hoax where they tell owners the batteries replace the generator, so they can avoid the expense of the generator and then charge you even more for the batteries with no credit for your generator they just took from you.

Unlike the generator which can run for a few days on propane for your AC and re-charge the batteries, you'll be required to run your engine accumulating un-wanted hours and burning far more fuel and generate engine heat in the cab. Presently the 2500 watt Onan burns only .3 gal hour, at half load our B has a 20 gal tank so I have 50-60 hrs running since the AC compressor does not run continually.

The best part of any Type B is having its own generator. You can always add or upgrade your batteries to Lithium later, don't let anyone tell you you don't need a generator! While I'm not a fan of propane generators on a diesel chassis, it does provide some piece of mind when you need it, surely much more value then a lithium battery with its limited discharged time.

Regards - Mike

[Neutron]

I understand what you are saying but the 2400watt propane generator is undersized for the Galleria and it trips the output breaker continually. I have only been able to get about 8-10 hours of runtime off a full bottle of propane there is no way to get 50 hours. Then you are off driving to get more propane. When they do the Li3 system they put in a second high amp alternator for the LiFePo4 battery and it can charge very fast while the vehicle is running. Propane is the most inneficient fuel source for a generator and diesel is one of the best. I have the generator and I added the battery , new inverter, and alternator and I did everything included in the Li3 package for a third of the cost. I worked with Lithionics here in Clearwater they supply the batteries for the egen system which is the Li3 in the galleria. I can now run my ac while driving down the road and I get about 8-9 hours when parked with the engine off of cycling ac depending on the weather. I have 200 watts of solar that normally supply more power than needed when the ac is off. The beauty of the lithium is that you can discharge it most of the way. I plan on pulling the generator out because dont need it. This is ok for how I use it. If you are boondocking for days at a time you would need to start the vehicle to charge the batteries occassionally but if you can get 50-60 hours on the propane generator thats pretty good. By the waybthe AGM batteries it comes with cannot run the AC nor can the standard alternator so off the grid you are generator only.

[Idleup]

Originally Posted by Neutron

I understand what you are saying but the 2400watt propane generator is undersized for the Galleria and it trips the output breaker continually. I have only been able to get about 8-10 hours of runtime off a full bottle of propane there is no way to get 50 hours. Then you are off driving to get more propane. When they do the Li3 system they put in a second high amp alternator for the LiFePo4 battery and it can charge very fast while the vehicle is running. Propane is the most inneficient fuel source for a generator and diesel is one of the best. I have the generator and I added the battery , new inverter, and alternator and I did everything included in the Li3 package for a third of the cost. I worked with Lithionics here in Clearwater they supply the batteries for the egen system which is the Li3 in the galleria. I can now run my ac while driving down the road and I get about 8-9 hours when parked with the engine off of cycling ac depending on the weather. I have 200 watts of solar that normally supply more power than needed when the ac is off. The beauty of the lithium is that you can discharge it most of the way. I plan on pulling the generator out because dont need it. This is ok for how I use it. If you are boondocking for days at a time you would need to start the vehicle to charge the batteries occassionally but if you can get 50-60 hours on the propane generator thats pretty good. By the waybthe AGM batteries it comes with cannot run the AC nor can the standard alternator so off the grid you are generator only.

Thanks for the reply however on some new models they have deleted the Onan generator all together which is a horrible hoax to lead owners to believe they can run the coach totally off the batteries as they would if they had a generator.

Not sure how big your propane tank is but most have a 15-19 gal propane tank and they burn around .3-.5 gal an hour.

If you Genny is popping beakers there is something wrong as far as its designed draw, or you might just have a bad breaker that could be heating up and popping.

Just curious how many hours can you run your AC on the lithium batteries?


Thanks Mike

[B-RV]

Originally Posted by Idleup

Thanks for the reply however on some new models they have deleted the Onan generator all together which is a horrible hoax to lead owners to believe they can run the coach totally off the batteries as they would if they had a generator.

Not sure how big your propane tank is but most have a 15-19 gal propane tank and they burn around .3-.5 gal an hour.

If you Genny is popping beakers there is something wrong as far as its designed draw, or you might just have a bad breaker that could be heating up and popping.

Just curious how many hours can you run your AC on the lithium batteries?


Thanks Mike

Sometimes it's OK to say you don't understand the electronics of Coachmens FANTASTIC Li3 system.
Why do you need a generator when the Lithionics battery will run everything in the home? If you need to run the A/C consistently, you get about 8 hours, if you have to use the generator to run the A/C you get about 12 hours. The difference, when out of LP you need to drive to get more, if the Lithium is down in charge you start the engine, in a little over 2 hours you're back to 100%. Which one is louder? The engine running or the Gen? Obvious answer. I can run my induction, my convection and my A/C with the Li3 system while boondocking and have no need for the popping of circuits on the Gen. With the Li3, I don't pop circuits, the smart inverter by Xantrex can actually surge to 6000 watts.
With Li3, no noisy Gen, no popping the circuit, no 2nd engine to maintain, no filling of LP, and so far no problems.
What will a gen do that the Li3 package will not do? From an owners perspective? Nothing.
PS: Most class B's have a propane tank that will hold 9 - 12 gallons max. Not talking about small class C's that people mistakenly refer to as an overweight B+.

[Idleup]

Originally Posted by B-RV

Sometimes it's OK to say you don't understand the electronics of Coachmens FANTASTIC Li3 system.
Why do you need a generator when the Lithionics battery will run everything in the home? If you need to run the A/C consistently, you get about 8 hours, if you have to use the generator to run the A/C you get about 12 hours. The difference, when out of LP you need to drive to get more, if the Lithium is down in charge you start the engine, in a little over 2 hours you're back to 100%. Which one is louder? The engine running or the Gen? Obvious answer. I can run my induction, my convection and my A/C with the Li3 system while boondocking and have no need for the popping of circuits on the Gen. With the Li3, I don't pop circuits, the smart inverter by Xantrex can actually surge to 6000 watts.
With Li3, no noisy Gen, no popping the circuit, no 2nd engine to maintain, no filling of LP, and so far no problems.
What will a gen do that the Li3 package will not do? From an owners perspective? Nothing.
PS: Most class B's have a propane tank that will hold 9 - 12 gallons max. Not talking about small class C's that people mistakenly refer to as an overweight B+.

Hello thanks for the reply - regretfully, it's your lack of understanding of lithium batteries and their capabilities with RV's that has confused many buyers to include yourself.

To be perfectly clear, I’m not talking about Lithium battery upgrades, they are great, while rather expensive, they provide many additional benefits. My post is only referring to the “Battery Hoax” that manufacturers like Coachman are pushing off on RV owners where they rip off your valuable generator (which you don’t credit you for) then drastically overcharge the customers for a Lithium battery pack to fool owners in thinking its a better system than a generator, when in fact its a terrible idea!

Regarding your comments of not understanding . . . my work for over a decade entails designing and flying lithium powered military drones, so I’m very familiar with their abilities. In addition and I've owned an electric powered BMW, I-3 and I-8, I also owned a Zero electric Motorcycle, and I presently own a GM electric ELR Cad and a Chevy Volt.

Regretfully, Coachman is using Tesla’s unachievable marketing tactic’s where they pour out globs of mis-information to make owners think they will be fine traveling with an “all electric” car when in fact, the power grid is strictly in Elon’s mind and does not exist. The Coachman hoax is the same deal, they are convincing immature buyers who know nothing about lithium into thing they no longer need piston generators in RV’s, when in fact its the furthest thing from the truth.

Ask yourself a few questions; why is every motorhome built have a generator and secondly and most important, who in their right mind would want to run their vehicles main 6 or 8 cylinder engine and accumulate wear and tear when a single or twin cylinder engine that cost a mere $2500 can perform the same and better function.

Here’s the key - first it’s important to note that running “any” automobile at idle or high idle is not recommended. If you don’t believe me there is now laws to prevent truck drivers from doing just that in rest stops. In addition, diesel engine vehicles are not really designed for extended idling. Diesel manufactures now have to certify their engine so they can cleanly sit and idle like that.

Making matters worse, idling new generation diesel engines is not recommended since at low engine speeds, it loses the ability to burn off the soot in the Cat converter and cause extra Regen's. Keep in mind a regen can burn from 1-3 gallons of fuel. I could go on with a list of other mechanical reasons like carbon build up and destroying the turbo’s but I won’t.

Making matters worse, unlike a generator pushing fresh air over the engine, with the main engine running sitting still, there is no forward airflow to evacuate high temperatures over the engine and transmission and electrical components under the hood. Just think of just how hot a car’s hood gets sitting in 100 degree heat in a traffic jam. Well this is your new Mercedes with a black hood and all this heat is now trapped in the front compartment and heated further underneath by the exhaust system as it now heats the same RV you’re trying to cool.

Anyhow, don’t let anyone tell you that deleting your generator is the way to go, it works against every principle there is. If you want to upgrade your battery pack that’s fine, but you’ll need the generator.

Lastly, Lithium batteries are like people they only like ideal temperatures around 72 degrees. During cold or hot temperatures they can lose 25-50% of their capability. While they now use heaters in the battery compartment, they draw power off the cells themselves to run the heaters.

Best Regards - Mike

[Ceci]

Mike,
I’m reading your replies with great interest. I’ve been wondering why companies like pleasureway have been staying with generators. (OP, I hope you don’t mind my hijacking your thread)

I hadn’t given consideration for the hours building up on the main engine if I used a second alternator. I’m still in the planning stage for getting an RV and admit that I’ve been thinking that my engine might only have to turn on for 30 minutes or do to charge my batteries.

I’m beginning to think getting an full-time RV might be a bit pie in the sky for me right now. I’m still tethered to a job in the southeast and I have a pet. That means lots of AC time. At least 5 hours worth in the middle of the day in the summers.

Would a large amount of solar, lithium batteries and a generator be able to reliably run AC 5 hours daily for several months? Can the AC run off the batteries for awhile before the generator kicks on? And will the generator be able to charge my batteries while powering the AC?

I hope you don’t mind my picking your brain. This is something I have to get right. My funds are limited and I sure don’t want to make a mistake!

Thx so much!

[Idleup]

Originally Posted by Ceci

Mike,
I’m reading your replies with great interest. I’ve been wondering why companies like pleasureway have been staying with generators. (OP, I hope you don’t mind my hijacking your thread)

I hadn’t given consideration for the hours building up on the main engine if I used a second alternator. I’m still in the planning stage for getting an RV and admit that I’ve been thinking that my engine might only have to turn on for 30 minutes or do to charge my batteries.

I’m beginning to think getting an full-time RV might be a bit pie in the sky for me right now. I’m still tethered to a job in the southeast and I have a pet. That means lots of AC time. At least 5 hours worth in the middle of the day in the summers.

Would a large amount of solar, lithium batteries and a generator be able to reliably run AC 5 hours daily for several months? Can the AC run off the batteries for awhile before the generator kicks on? And will the generator be able to charge my batteries while powering the AC?

I hope you don’t mind my picking your brain. This is something I have to get right. My funds are limited and I sure don’t want to make a mistake!

Thx so much!

Ceci,

Hello and thanks for the reply - I didn't mean to scare anyone off, but running your main engine as a generator is really not in your best interest. Lithium and solar are great options with a generator. Of course unlike a Type C or A there is not a lot of room for panels so the solar is going to help but not really provide any serious "active" power.

Regarding running the engine as a generator - Oil changes and maintenance are predicated on miles not hours, so all the extra hours on the engine when used as a generator will exceed your maintenance schedule. As I mentioned idling or even high idle for extended periods of time is an invitation for turbo carbon /soot problems.

When I was at the recent Tampa RV show I was talking to a couple and they were considering the non generator route. They were thinking about a Coachman since it has an auto-start which they felt it would be great since they leave their pets in the van when they go riding around town. I advised them to re-think it since nothing other than grid power is dependable when it comes to our little furry friends.

Anyhow another problem with this engine / generator line of thinking is, there is no way to tell when the Benz is going to do a regen - If it should happen while your parked and away, there could be a safety issue or even a fire since there is a terrific amount of heat being generated in the Cat as a massive amount of raw diesel fuel (1-3 gallons) is injected in the converter to burn off the soot. Hopefully the RV is not parked over any dead grass or wood chips as this may result in a fire.

Making matters worse, the exhaust on the Benz is pointed out on the camping side of the coach and hopefully there is no chairs, towels etc. in front or near the engines exhaust.

Anyhow, there is no getting around it, if you can afford lithium batteries, that is a good move, but by any means give up your little generator. If you want to do a good upgrade then consider a diesel generator and you won't have the propane limitations.


Regards - Mike

[Neutron]

The cost of the LI3 Battery, The 2nd Alternator, and the upgraded Inverter and BMS is a lot higher than the propane generator. I have the generator on my 2019 Galleria and it is awful. It smells, it is loud, and it is the most inefficient fuel to burn for power production. The problem is that there are no good generator solutions for a sprinter that allow ground clearance and have a decent power rating. The Onan is only 2400 watts and it is the largest propane you can fit under a sprinter. When you charge the standard AGM batteries and run the AC at the same time you are borderline on the max output and the breaker trips. To run the AC when driving you must run the generator. I did a test and I ran the generator with a full tank of propane with the ac off and it lasted 7 hours with virtually no load. That will never happen with a 600 amp hour Lifepo4 battery. I get about 8 hours on a really hot day on the battery, but with the cooler weather the solar keeps it charged under normal usage. I worked in the van about 12 hours today and went from 98% to 94% (no AC). With the second alternator I can run the AC in the back when driving and not even tax the battery. Mercedes also designed their vehicles for long idle periods and all of the special packages have the parametric modules for things like extra ac compressors and alternators for box trucks and the like. There is absolutely no need for a generator anymore and very few trips to the propane station, I still use the propane for a grill and heat.