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Old 09-03-2016, 12:20 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by mrfuni View Post
Just picked up a new 2017 ERA 70X which works for just my wife and I. Drove home from the dealer, interstate about 100 miles doing 65 mph and registered 16 mpg. Hoping that improves after the engine breaks in. Drives nice but I like others question the quality in the inside.



Haven't camped you so can't comment on all the components. Lots of rattling noise while driving, got to hang out in the back while she drives to figure where it's coming from. Opened a draw and it fell out and the hinges were laying on the floor. Yes poor workmanship.



Unfortunately I'm afraid when I take it back to the dealer for the first oil change I'll have a long list of warrantee work from the shoddy workmanship. Disappointing with the price we paid to get a lack of quality on the inside.

So why did you buy it if it's made so poorly?
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Old 09-03-2016, 02:03 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Groovinon View Post
You picked the Airstream and said the Era was too small. We are two 2 legged humans and two 4 legged humans who only weigh 5lbs each. I'm curious if your only issue with the Era was that it was too small. We liked the Era interior and are thinking about buying it. Looking for any other feedback you might share about the Era. We are excited but don't want to rush in if others saw major issues. Thanks in advance for any help you might provide.
When I took a look at the Era, what I noticed was, like the Road Trek, they build the "house" right to the back of the van, with the couch back right up against the rear doors. While that gives a bit more space in the living area, it removes most of the storage in the "trunk", or rear of the van. Given that B's are already very tight on storage space, when I considered how we travel and camp, I just didn't think there was sufficient room for the "stuff" that we bring along. We mainly boondock and spend our time outside vs. in the RV, so all we need in the coach is sleeping quarters, shower/bathroom (even that is a bit optional as we tend to use the facilities provided by the forest service, etc.), and a small kitchen area (I normally cook outside too). The only time we spend any significant time inside is if the weather is bad.

So.....I needed storage to bring the outdoor grill, table, chairs, hiking gear, fishing gear, cooler w/ extra food, tarps/tents if we decide to hike/stay in back country, backpacks, dog food/dishes, and the list goes on. All that "stuff" needs to go somewhere, and I don't want it in the main part of the coach. This is where the rear "trunk" on the AI is invaluable for us, and where the others ended up looking/feeling too small.

Note that everyone's situation (and therefore needs) is going to be different, so the best thing you can do to help make the best decision for YOUR needs is to honestly assess how you travel/camp and make sure the rig you choose will meet those needs. For us, a few other things that helped guide us to the B class was < 25' so it can get into pretty much any state park, BLM land, national forest, etc., and being a van, it fits in a normal parking spot (just find a spot to back into so the overhang has someplace to go and doesn't hit anything!) so we can use it like a regular vehicle and not have to find 2 empty spots side-by-side like you do in the B+ (LTV, PW, etc). Finally, we tend to tour camp vs. destination camp (stay 1-2 nights at one spot then move on), so we just LOVE the windows everywhere in the coach! The view outside is very car-like, with nearly 360* viewing vs. a "traditional" RV that feels like you're in the hull of a boat with little port holes to peep out of.

I hope some of that helps.
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Old 09-03-2016, 02:06 PM   #31
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So why did you buy it if it's made so poorly?
It's what mama wanted and checked most everything out prior to signing. Figure if it breaks they'll fix it. Most of our use will be road travel, probably 75% Hampton Inn and 25% KOA. And it does ride nice.
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Old 09-05-2016, 02:17 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by FlyFishinRVr View Post
When I took a look at the Era, what I noticed was, like the Road Trek, they build the "house" right to the back of the van, with the couch back right up against the rear doors. While that gives a bit more space in the living area, it removes most of the storage in the "trunk", or rear of the van. Given that B's are already very tight on storage space, when I considered how we travel and camp, I just didn't think there was sufficient room for the "stuff" that we bring along. We mainly boondock and spend our time outside vs. in the RV, so all we need in the coach is sleeping quarters, shower/bathroom (even that is a bit optional as we tend to use the facilities provided by the forest service, etc.), and a small kitchen area (I normally cook outside too). The only time we spend any significant time inside is if the weather is bad.

So.....I needed storage to bring the outdoor grill, table, chairs, hiking gear, fishing gear, cooler w/ extra food, tarps/tents if we decide to hike/stay in back country, backpacks, dog food/dishes, and the list goes on. All that "stuff" needs to go somewhere, and I don't want it in the main part of the coach. This is where the rear "trunk" on the AI is invaluable for us, and where the others ended up looking/feeling too small.

Note that everyone's situation (and therefore needs) is going to be different, so the best thing you can do to help make the best decision for YOUR needs is to honestly assess how you travel/camp and make sure the rig you choose will meet those needs. For us, a few other things that helped guide us to the B class was < 25' so it can get into pretty much any state park, BLM land, national forest, etc., and being a van, it fits in a normal parking spot (just find a spot to back into so the overhang has someplace to go and doesn't hit anything!) so we can use it like a regular vehicle and not have to find 2 empty spots side-by-side like you do in the B+ (LTV, PW, etc). Finally, we tend to tour camp vs. destination camp (stay 1-2 nights at one spot then move on), so we just LOVE the windows everywhere in the coach! The view outside is very car-like, with nearly 360* viewing vs. a "traditional" RV that feels like you're in the hull of a boat with little port holes to peep out of.

I hope some of that helps.
All great points
Everyone has different needs. We like the ability to park in normal places, state parks, etc. We did not care for the rear bed/couch in the Roadtrek and the 70X either. We looked at Roadtrek, Travato, and a hand full of others. The Era 70A which as more rear storage and a berth style rear bed and few Airstream Interstates, too, but went for the larger kitchen/fridge and a real bath in the Era 70C.


MrFuni- You'll always have a few rattles, but most can be taken care of by adjusting the latch, some stick on bumpers, or adjusting the "cargo". Did you not do a walk through when you bought it?

After our first outing we did have a few items that needed to be addressed, but over all we are pretty happy with the Winnebago. No drawers fell apart...yet.
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Old 09-05-2016, 05:25 PM   #33
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MrFuni- You'll always have a few rattles, but most can be taken care of by adjusting the latch, some stick on bumpers, or adjusting the "cargo". Did you not do a walk through when you bought it?

Yes, everything worked, checked ac, plumbing, Etc even all the draws.
Maybe some components stop working when you get home
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Old 09-05-2016, 05:42 PM   #34
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One of the issues with even the best QA systems is how long to test before a line item passes?

How many times do you move the slide in and out before declaring it will not fail? How many times do you drive around the block twice and then open the slide? Do you open the slide while the unit is not quite level? How many gallons of water do you pump through the system? How many times do you pull the dump switches to dump the holding tanks? And on and on and on.

You would have to test each item in each unit until it fails and that would be silly.

When you speak of rattles etc. Do you want the tech to drive your unit at highway speed down the roughest road that can be found, across a couple curbs and sunken driveways, twist it across the entrance to a couple service stations to identify noises? Not too practical.

When people talk about quality most of them are talking about the bling. I would like to see the test plan they would write to ensure the unit they received had been thoroughly tested and would pass their requirements.
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Old 09-05-2016, 11:38 PM   #35
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There is one B that we have seen, the Winnebago ERA70C that has a dry bath. It's not a bad RV. I'd prefer a bit more living space. We've been in the Isata 3 from Dynamax, but I've not been able to get the curb weight. Each time I've asked the sales gal has changed the topic or answered a different question. I'm purely guessing, but it must be an issue. We like the Leisure Travel with the slide. The Pleasure Way does not have a slide, but still a nice RV.

I'm now on the hunt to understand how much weight the slide adds to a 25' RV. A 25' size RV in theory seems perfect. The slide seems perfect to add living space, but what really happens to our available cargo weight?
ANY CURRENT owners out there how have a 25' RV... HOW much stuff can you take with full fuel, water, tanks etc?
Is there a weight difference in gas or diesel engines?
We are in 2009 Dynamax ISATA 26ft now, one big slide. Fully loaded, last time checked, we were 14660lbs (curb weight is 14500lbs). Our absolutely empty weight is 13100lb, but it is including several stabilizers we added. We carry a big scooter. Tongue weight is 500lb, scooter and carrier - 480lb. Other heaviest things would be - bicycles with a carrier (about 80lbs), a lot of tools for my husband and extra water (4 canisters of 6 gal each). The rest is just clothes, kitchen stuff, food, nothing much. We have camping chairs in the trunk, one collapsible ladder (kind of heavy), not much else there. In two other storages we have laundry liquids, tools, 50AMP cable, water hoses, things like that.

We looked at Phoenix Cruiser, Big Foot and Leasure Travel Unity before we got ours. None of those impressed us as much. Unity seemed cheapy and small, so it was out right away. Phoenix Cruiser had very small slide, ours is twice as deep. Otherwise that one was not bad but finishes, wood and amount of storage space are much more impressive in Dynamax. Big Foot for some reason seemed claustrophobic.

We like our motorhome very much. We would like to sell it (we have an ad here, in classified section) and change it to a toy-hauler but may keep it and just get a trailer as it is difficult to find same level of quality. Plus we've put so much in this one. We know we would like to bring the next one to the same level of ride. Ours drives like a dream, no winds, trucks, etc. bother it a bit.

When we were looking we followed advice that is given by Consumer Group RV ratings. Dynamax has one of the highest rating in reliability/quality category - 84. That was a deal breaker for us after reading a lot about lack of quality in motorhomes these days.

We have gas engine, so I cannot answer the question about weight of diesel and gasoline engines. All I know that our gas takes us very steep uphill with ease.
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Old 09-24-2016, 10:14 PM   #36
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Part of the reason there are so many poorly constructed RVs from makers other than PW, LT and AS is they suffer from the fatal error of bloat. I can't for the life of me figure out the difference between many of the Thor, Winnebago, and myriad of also-rans, models. It is the same thing as when U.S. auto makers had a million different models with zillion different options. That is a disaster for manufacturing. The Japanese came in with Honda, which you may recall came in two models, Civic and Accord, each of them had two, maybe three versions, and initially, the Accord only came in burgundy or silver. Take it or leave it. The reliability was off the charts, so people took it. And the U.S. auto makers all went to find out how they managed to make reliable cars.

PW has four bodies, with a total of seven floorpans, zero slide outs. LT has three body styles, eight floor plans, one version of slide out. I haven't spent much time on the AS because I want a wider body with ceiling clearance, but I recollect it was about two versions. Thor has over twenty-five Class C models, who knows how many floor plans. I am not going to even look at the others; they have brands within each class. I think we have seen that business model before and we know where it ends. Brands/models are redundant and it is impossible to differentiate them enough for the consumer to be anything other than confused. Winnebago is better, but still, they make Class A, diesel and gas, Class C (a mere eight models), three Class Bs (I am really pulling for them to be successful in this segment), travel trailers and fifth wheels. That's a lot of divisions to keep together, a lot of manufacturing hands to keep in the loop. When there are dozens of versions to make, it is a nightmare for engineering and production managers, not to mention the factory workers. What's on the schedule today? So many flavors available for sale, many end up custom made, one offs, as it were.

A better product always comes from a company doing a few things really well, than a company doing lots of things half-assedly.
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Old 09-25-2016, 07:56 AM   #37
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You are right on here!
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Old 09-25-2016, 10:16 AM   #38
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Part of the reason there are so many poorly constructed RVs from makers other than PW, LT and AS is they suffer from the fatal error of bloat. I can't for the life of me figure out the difference between many of the Thor, Winnebago, and myriad of also-rans, models. It is the same thing as when U.S. auto makers had a million different models with zillion different options. That is a disaster for manufacturing. The Japanese came in with Honda, which you may recall came in two models, Civic and Accord, each of them had two, maybe three versions, and initially, the Accord only came in burgundy or silver. Take it or leave it. The reliability was off the charts, so people took it. And the U.S. auto makers all went to find out how they managed to make reliable cars.

PW has four bodies, with a total of seven floorpans, zero slide outs. LT has three body styles, eight floor plans, one version of slide out. I haven't spent much time on the AS because I want a wider body with ceiling clearance, but I recollect it was about two versions. Thor has over twenty-five Class C models, who knows how many floor plans. I am not going to even look at the others; they have brands within each class. I think we have seen that business model before and we know where it ends. Brands/models are redundant and it is impossible to differentiate them enough for the consumer to be anything other than confused. Winnebago is better, but still, they make Class A, diesel and gas, Class C (a mere eight models), three Class Bs (I am really pulling for them to be successful in this segment), travel trailers and fifth wheels. That's a lot of divisions to keep together, a lot of manufacturing hands to keep in the loop. When there are dozens of versions to make, it is a nightmare for engineering and production managers, not to mention the factory workers. What's on the schedule today? So many flavors available for sale, many end up custom made, one offs, as it were.

A better product always comes from a company doing a few things really well, than a company doing lots of things half-assedly.
You have an interesting insight to the industry. I believe for the most part you are very close to the mark. Sort of can agree with "A better product always comes from a company doing a few things really well, than a company doing lots of things half-assedly" if that is the corporate culture. I note both Honda and Toyota have had some 'stinkers' and large recalls.

IMO there is very little difference between any of the RV manufacturers when you start factoring in production numbers. Using this forum as a very small sampling it appears that if you base the complaints vs the number of units produced by each manufacturer a informal estimate is the failure rate is about the same for all manufacturers.

Price does not seem to be a large factor. I have met people with units considered by many as entry level with no problems and a couple with a custom built Marathon who were heading back to the factory with problems.
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Old 09-25-2016, 10:34 PM   #39
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Part of the reason there are so many poorly constructed RVs from makers other than PW, LT and AS is they suffer from the fatal error of bloat.

A better product always comes from a company doing a few things really well, than a company doing lots of things half-assedly.
^^That last bit is True.
According to this: Opinion: The RV industry death spiral – Part 1 | RV Daily Report Thor and Forest River owns/produces 83% of the RV market

Walmart proves that the typical American consumer won't pay the premium for better products, they just care about low prices.

What companies are you referring to?
PW? ?? Pleasure Way?
LT? ?? Leisure Travel?
AS? Air Stream?
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Old 10-19-2016, 09:07 PM   #40
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Congrats on your Airstream Interstate. I don't know how they stack up against Roadtrek's long term but it was very apparent to me when looking at both that the AS looked to be significantly better built with much better materials.
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