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Vectraguy · 01-06-2016, 03:24 PM

Our problem is with a 1996 Winnebago Vectra Grand Tour on a Freightliner with a 6bt Cummins and a MD3060/6 trans.

So, on our last trip the coach would not restart after lunch one day and it took us a while to get it going. We had roadside service ($$) pull the starter and test it on the ground and it spun but sounded iffy, the bendix would not exactly fly out every time but we put it back on and jumped it and discounted it as a weak battery (It tested at a tick over 14 volts while running however). The non-native English speaking mechanic hooked up the cables to his truck backwards and it did spark a bit on our end when the connection was attempted, but only a minor arc. I just want to mention this in case its relevant later.

We kept it on a trickle charger while camping and had a few slow starts after sitting a few days but I figure it was to be expected. I did notice that the speedo was now bouncing a little and at times was seriously under reporting.

So anyway. we get home after driving from Ft. Myers to Indy and parked in the driveway to unload, then the next day it would only click. Even with the MOM button AND a car trying to jump it.

So, we went ahead and got a new engine battery (12 valves only use one) and I just had the starter rebuilt today by a reputable shop that admitted these older starters were never really considered "Good" and he replaced everything and reconditioned it.

So, now I get the exact same issue. Click back at the starter. While under the coach the other day I had the wife turn the key and the starter is indeed getting signal to the solenoid but even this new starter only clicks.

The flat braided cable was filed clean where it grounds to a starter bolt,(I admit I have not checked the frame side of that flat braided cable yet, I will do that in the AM) the bell housing was filed flat and clean, the battery connections are perfect and the ground lugs on the frame were loosened and re-tightened to check the ground side and the hot side. No joy.

"Click".

This coach only has a computer for the transmission, its a simple beast but what am I missing? I doubt it would be anything in the dash, if it were the key switch the starter would not click.

Also, FWIW I am starting to doubt that the MOM (momentary start switch) is working because it does not thump when the key is on, (it does make a click before you turn the key however, but if the key is on I cannot hear the relay grab). I doubt this is relevant but again I thought I would add the info.

I sure am grateful it waited till we got home to lay down completely, but I need to get this into winter storage so I can start to clean up the area after the tornado went through here while we were in Florida (That's another long story).

Thoughts?

Ranger Smith · 01-06-2016, 03:28 PM

Did you replace the solenoid. It appears that the solenoid is clicking but not transferring power to the starter motor. You can check the solenoid by jumping the 2 big terminals with a screwdriver and see if the starter turns.

palehorse89 · 01-06-2016, 03:32 PM

If the solenoid is clicking, it is good......starter section might have a problem, even a new one.
Geeks On Cars: How to Tell If a Starter Solenoid Is Working?
Your frame ground will maybe be where your problem is.......

twinboat · 01-06-2016, 03:38 PM

Clip a volt meter on the starter cables and hit the start switch.

If the volts drop below 10, you have a bad connection on the large cables. Trace them to look for every connection point and component.

If the volts stay high, the problem may be in the starter/ solenoid.

Vectraguy · 01-06-2016, 03:41 PM

I did bench test the newly rebuilt unit and it did function correctly. The solenoid is new, (and not made in China). I grounded the housing, hot to the big post and then used a jumper to go from hot to small lead and the bendix flew out and it sounded smooth. I will try this tomorrow with it mounted to the coach to see if I get anything.

38Chevy454 · 01-06-2016, 03:42 PM

Cables can also go bad with internal corrosion. Looks OK since corrosion is inside the insulation coating, but not able to pass sufficient current.

palehorse89 · 01-06-2016, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vectraguy

I did bench test the newly rebuilt unit and it did function correctly. The solenoid is new, (and not made in China). I grounded the housing, hot to the big post and then used a jumper to go from hot to small lead and the bendix flew out and it sounded smooth. I will try this tomorrow with it mounted to the coach to see if I get anything.

I hope it works for you and you can get on your way

mchero · 01-06-2016, 04:12 PM

GROUNDS GROUNDS GROUNDS

Check ALL connections, the cable between the - side of the chassis batteries and frame. Remove & clean up connections. Use dielectric grease. "Should" Have some type of rather large grounding strap(s) between frame and engine block. Again remove & check connections & clean.
Fully charge chassis batterie(s), turn on ignition & check to see what type of voltage your getting up at the firewall. Under the front hood & under dash get voltages to see if your loosing any voltage up to the dash.
These older rigs start getting s**ty connections and everything goes wrong!LOL
My 93 Pace arrow diesel pusher had a cluster of solenoids & auto breakers. The where pretty well rusted UT was still functional, part of the starting circuit! I replaced all components BEFORE they failed.
Don't let those batteries, chassis or house go flat! can get expensive

Frutza · 01-07-2016, 07:25 AM

Grounds and cables, use a volt meter, like Twinboat said, but make more tests, 1st, check while cranking positive on starter lug grounded to starter. then leave it connected to the starter lug and go to you positive terminal of the battery, the voltage reading you get is the loss during starting, shouldn't be more than 1 volt, if its more check or replace your cables. next hook one end of meter to starter then to negative side of battery and do the same thing.

Vectraguy · 01-07-2016, 11:41 AM

Well, I find that if I use another battery under the coach directly connected to the starter it turns over. The cables have been cleaned, the ground bar on the chassis behind the battery center was sanded clean, dielectric grease applied and then the negative re-mounted. The hot post where all 12 volt leads combine was also checked with no issue found. The huge wire to the starter mounts here and so does the battery cable.
I even used jumper cables to add another ground from the chassis to the starter in the event the braided flat ground wire is suspect.

I cannot test voltage drop by myself so that will need to wait, but I am curious about the signal wire that goes to the starter solenoid, where does it get voltage from? I would guess the ignition switch, would a low voltage from that wire cause issue? Hmm.

twinboat · 01-07-2016, 11:54 AM

If it turns over at the key, with the extra battery hooked, The start circuit is not the problem.

The voltage to the starter mounted solenoid comes from another solenoid. That one is controlled by the key.

Run a jumper cable from the starter to the batt plus and see if it helps.

If it helps, suspect a bad cable or end. Look for breaks in the covering, where water can get in and corrode it.

Vectraguy · 01-07-2016, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat

If it turns over at the key, with the extra battery hooked, The start circuit is not the problem.

The voltage to the starter mounted solenoid comes from another solenoid. That one is controlled by the key.

Run a jumper cable from the starter to the batt plus and see if it helps.

If it helps, suspect a bad cable or end. Look for breaks in the covering, where water can get in and corrode it.

I did not use the key while I had the battery hooked directly to the starter. And, I cant run a jumper from the stock battery location to the starter because the battery is closer to the front than the rear and its a around 20+ foot.

I wonder where the first solenoid is located? I am seriously thinking that it may be sending reduced voltage to the starter mounted solenoid.

twinboat · 01-07-2016, 12:14 PM

Can't help with location but if it cranks at all, the starter solenoid is getting enough power to pull in. Thats all it does.

The contacts in the starter mounted solenoid connect the big battery + cable to the starter motor.
If it cranks slow, it's the big cable or ground circuit.

I just reread your post, touch a wire from a battery, even the spare battery, to the small terminal on the solenoid. Ground the other post of course.

If it cranks find the slave solenoid and Check it.

mel s · 01-07-2016, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vectraguy

Our problem is with a 1996 Winnebago Vectra Grand Tour on a Freightliner with a 6bt Cummins and a MD3060/6 trans.
We kept it on a trickle charger while camping and had a few slow starts after sitting a few days but I figure it was to be expected. I did notice that the speedo was now bouncing a little and at times was seriously under reporting.
parked in the driveway to unload, then the next day it would only click. Even with the MOM button AND a car trying to jump it.

we went ahead and got a new engine battery (12 valves only use one) and I just had the starter rebuilt today by a reputable shop that admitted these older starters were never really considered "Good" and he replaced everything and reconditioned it.
Thoughts?

Vectraguy
Methinks you might have gotten a bad "new" battery.
Take it out and have it "load tested", (preferably where you bought it).

However since most batteries are warranted by the manufacture any seller of that same brand of battery will give you a free replacement battery, (if the warranty has not expired and if yours "tests bad").
Mel
'96 Safari