Engine Oil Dipstick Calibrated Incorrectly

[SteveG]

Today I discovered that our 2004 Journey 36G, Cat 330HP C7 engine oil dipstick was calibrated incorrectly. I am assuming that the dipstick has been wrong from the original 2004 manufacturing date. I say "assuming"� because there is no way I can know for sure that the dipstick is original equipment installed by Freightliner/Caterpillar.

I found this problem when I was installing the engine oil in the recommended four stages to convert from a 22 quart capacity to a 19 quart capacity as recommended by Cat to reduce/stop blow-by. The first stage is to drain all the oil and change to a new dry filter.

The second stage is to add 14 quarts and then mark the dipstick as the "add"� mark. The new "add"� oil level was actually above the original "add"� level about ¼"�. I realized then I had something wrong so recounted the quarts I had installed and it was 14 quarts.

I proceeded to stage three and added three quarts to bring the level to the new "full"� mark. The new "full"� mark measured about an inch above the old "full"� mark.

I then called Caterpillar and Freightliner to make sure I understood what I thought I understood. They assured me that apparently the dipstick that I have is not calibrated to reflect a 22 quart "full"� mark. They both recommended that I proceed with stage four.

Stage Four is to add oil to compensate for the empty filter. Run the engine for one minute and shut it down and wait 10 minutes and then fill to the "full"� mark. This forth stage requires about two quarts.

I am surprised that my 2004 engine has been running on about 15 to 16 quarts and not 22 quarts which is the original oil quantity specification for this C7 engine. I have never had a low oil pressure warning so have to say the engine was lubricated. But in the year we have owned the Journey we have never driven in the mountains so maybe that would have made a difference. The two former owners must have had a similar experience.

Apparently this low oil condition was not discovered during the original (I am assuming the problem goes back to original manufacturing) oil fill or the three or four oil fills since (assuming at least one oil change each year). In talking with a local Cat dealer he thought the problem got by everyone because they were filling to the "full"� mark. They rightly assumed that the dipstick was calibrated correctly. It was my installing a pre-measured oil quantity that made the problem apparent.

Since I was not having a blow-by problem I almost decided to put back 22 quarts and not bother with the change. It is lucky for me that I decided to follow Cat's recommendation to change to 19 quarts. I suppose this is not a wide spread problem, but I thought I would share my experience providing a heads up for those who think they have 22 quarts and no blow-by problem. You may want to check the oil quantity next oil change.

I am also going to post this on the CAT RV Club http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/CATRVCLUB/ under the name C7smooth.

[SteveG]

Today I discovered that our 2004 Journey 36G, Cat 330HP C7 engine oil dipstick was calibrated incorrectly. I am assuming that the dipstick has been wrong from the original 2004 manufacturing date. I say "assuming"� because there is no way I can know for sure that the dipstick is original equipment installed by Freightliner/Caterpillar.

I found this problem when I was installing the engine oil in the recommended four stages to convert from a 22 quart capacity to a 19 quart capacity as recommended by Cat to reduce/stop blow-by. The first stage is to drain all the oil and change to a new dry filter.

The second stage is to add 14 quarts and then mark the dipstick as the "add"� mark. The new "add"� oil level was actually above the original "add"� level about ¼"�. I realized then I had something wrong so recounted the quarts I had installed and it was 14 quarts.

I proceeded to stage three and added three quarts to bring the level to the new "full"� mark. The new "full"� mark measured about an inch above the old "full"� mark.

I then called Caterpillar and Freightliner to make sure I understood what I thought I understood. They assured me that apparently the dipstick that I have is not calibrated to reflect a 22 quart "full"� mark. They both recommended that I proceed with stage four.

Stage Four is to add oil to compensate for the empty filter. Run the engine for one minute and shut it down and wait 10 minutes and then fill to the "full"� mark. This forth stage requires about two quarts.

I am surprised that my 2004 engine has been running on about 15 to 16 quarts and not 22 quarts which is the original oil quantity specification for this C7 engine. I have never had a low oil pressure warning so have to say the engine was lubricated. But in the year we have owned the Journey we have never driven in the mountains so maybe that would have made a difference. The two former owners must have had a similar experience.

Apparently this low oil condition was not discovered during the original (I am assuming the problem goes back to original manufacturing) oil fill or the three or four oil fills since (assuming at least one oil change each year). In talking with a local Cat dealer he thought the problem got by everyone because they were filling to the "full"� mark. They rightly assumed that the dipstick was calibrated correctly. It was my installing a pre-measured oil quantity that made the problem apparent.

Since I was not having a blow-by problem I almost decided to put back 22 quarts and not bother with the change. It is lucky for me that I decided to follow Cat's recommendation to change to 19 quarts. I suppose this is not a wide spread problem, but I thought I would share my experience providing a heads up for those who think they have 22 quarts and no blow-by problem. You may want to check the oil quantity next oil change.

I am also going to post this on the CAT RV Club http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/CATRVCLUB/ under the name C7smooth.

[Garbageman]

SteveG, Thanks for the good information. Now you've got me scratching my head wondering about my coach. My coach has a 3126 cat but is my dipstick marked correctly? I'll have to double check.

Paul

[jdoc]

SteveG, the problem goes back to the original owner. When he had the oil changed the very first time it should have been calibrated then. Cat makes 2 oil pans for the C7 engine,(why I don't know), one is for 19 qts. and the other is for 22 qts. Obviously the sump is deeper on the 22 than the 19. Looking at them you can tell the difference. A friend of mine had the oil changed in his 2004 Providence with a Cat C7. He put in 22 qts. and went on a trip. The next time he checked his oil it was 3 qts. low. He added 3 qts. and then headed home. He checked it again when he got home. Once again 3 qts. low. Freightliner then came out with a "Fix" for the problem. The problem was when the oil was blowing out of the engine it was getting on the owners toad and also possibly plugging up the radiator on the coach engine. There fix was a piece of pipe and 2 radiator hose clamps that the customer had to pay $100 for. The real fix was to have the dipstick calibrated to 19 qts. Guess what? No more 3 qts of oil blowing out of the engine.
Calibrating the dipstick should be done not only Cat engines, but on every DP. With the price of oil these days 3 qts every time you check your oil can add up real quick.
Garbageman, if you bought your coach used I would have it checked.
Jerry

[Jestme13]

I was all through this with Cat and FCCC. Turns out my engine has a 22 qt pan. I can run 19qt with out a problem if I should notice any blow by from the slober tube. It appears one can run anywhere between 19 and 22 qts without effecting lubrication, if you have the 22 qt pan, its all a matter of blow by. If it's a 19 qt pan, naturaly you will want to run 19 qts. Cat can tell you what you have from your engine number

PS: rarely will a diesel need oil added between scheduled changes, if you do something is wrong.

[SteveG]

The good news is that the CAT blow-by problem is well documented and the information available to all. So I have known for some time that I had a 22 quart pan. Of course I had no blow-by problem running with only 15 or 16 quarts. I was under the impression that I had maximum 22 quart lubrication and toad life was great. Falls into the category of what you don't know will probably hurt you! Who would have guessed that the dip stick was not calibrated? But now all is well and there doesn't seem to have been any harm done.

When I got into this I did some research and here is what I found. From the time the C7 was introduced in July, 2003 and probably since, there were two C7 pans manufactured: (1) the 22 qt pan which has a smooth surface and is called the "shallow oil sump"� which Cat has recommended reducing oil quantity to 19 qts (2) the 30 or 32qt pan (Can't remember size) which has a ribbed surface and is called "deep oil sump"� which Cat has recommended reducing oil quantity to 28 qts. In talking with people I am under the impression that for RV application the shallow oil sump is the one typically used. And as we know, the oil quantity changes were to reduce blow-by. So now that I am going to run with 19 quarts which is 3 or 4 quarts more then before, it will be interesting to see if I now have any blow-by issues. According to Cat and others Toad life should still be oil free. We'll soon see.

[Ecker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SteveG:
The good news is that the CAT blow-by problem is well documented and the information available to all. So I have known for some time that I had a 22 quart pan. Of course I had no blow-by problem running with only 15 or 16 quarts. I was under the impression that I had maximum 22 quart lubrication and toad life was great. Falls into the category of what you don't know will probably hurt you! Who would have guessed that the dip stick was not calibrated? But now all is well and there doesn't seem to have been any harm done.

When I got into this I did some research and here is what I found. From the time the C7 was introduced in July, 2003 and probably since, there were two C7 pans manufactured: (1) the 22 qt pan which has a smooth surface and is called the "shallow oil sump"� which Cat has recommended reducing oil quantity to 19 qts (2) the 30 or 32qt pan (Can't remember size) which has a ribbed surface and is called "deep oil sump"� which Cat has recommended reducing oil quantity to 28 qts. In talking with people I am under the impression that for RV application the shallow oil sump is the one typically used. And as we know, the oil quantity changes were to reduce blow-by. So now that I am going to run with 19 quarts which is 3 or 4 quarts more then before, it will be interesting to see if I now have any blow-by issues. According to Cat and others Toad life should still be oil free. We'll soon see. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe if one digs deep enough you'll find that CAT changed to higher volume of oil in order to be able to compete with Cummins 15,000 mile oil change vs CAT at 8000. By increasing oil quantity they were able to go to 11,000 - not equal to Cummins but closer. In old days Detroit used to brag about higher chnage interval than competition but it was determined reason was they leaked more than others. Higher leakage cause addition of more new oil ergo higher change interval.

[Tuney-GA]

I've been following this thread because I have an 07 Meridian with the C7 350 HP engine. After following the thread for some time I pulled out the Caterpillar Operation and Maintenance Manual.

Page 161 of the 2005 edition:

"The engine oil level will vary depending on the angle and slant of the engine installation..."
"The oil level gage markings must be verified in order to ensure that the markings are correct."

The topic then provides a detailed description of how to check and adjust the markings.

The Journey and Meridian engines have the shallow sump so they should use 19 Quarts including the filter.

I wish I'd seen this before I had the oil changed 2 weeks ago. Guess I'll just have to keep an eye on it and have it calibrated when I take it in for the next oil change and M1 chassis service.

[Tboh]

My C7 was 1 Qt too high on the dipstick. Aparently this is a common issue. Interesting there is no way to put the propper dipstick in the new rig when its being built rather than every end user taking a file to the other side. Oil is a big deal.

[Tuney-GA]

I had a conversation with a technician on the Freightliner Help Line today that was very informative. So I thought I'd share it here.

First of all from reading the Operations and maintenance manual for the C7 engine that's in the black bag that came with our Meridian, The difference between the add and full lines on the dipstick should be 3 quarts.

From the conversation with Freightliner I learned the following.

1. When the C7 first came out it specified 22 quarts for the shallow pan (prefix WAX).

2. Freightliner supplies the dipstick and it's calibrated for 22 Quarts.

3. Catapillar later reduced the spec to 19 quarts because of the "blow-by" issue.

4. 22 - 3 = 19. I had my oil changed at Lazy Days 2 weeks ago (before I heard about the calibration issue) and the dipstick reads "add".

Therefore, my oil level is ok until the next oil change, and I'll have the dipstick recalibrated.