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01-17-2015, 07:41 AM
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#15
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 87
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Xtra heavy
Don't forget that your jack and stands for your truck are not heavy duty enough to hold the load of your motor home. Also we use a web strap with handles to hold the drums when removing and reinstalling, makes life easier and keeps your back a little safer.
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01-17-2015, 11:56 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Out there, somewhere
Posts: 9,899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soneil422
So far, only working on the fronts. MH only has 23k miles, but had it inspected and they found cracked shoes. Reading your post, makes me feel like it's easier then I first thought. I may not even have to replace the drums. Thanks again. I'm getting excited to start it. I wish I had a video camera to record the job for YouTube. Air Brake replacement videos are hard to come by.
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soneil,
"Cracked" shoes, especially on air braked vehicles, is by far, the NORM. Now, the size and depth of the cracks of course, will lead you to make a determination if, IF, a replacement is needed. In the previous pictures I posted, although you cannot zoom in, you will see quite a few cracks. And, again, on the drum contact surface, while you cannot zoom in, there are zillions of little "hairline" cracks there too. It's all a normal operating presentation. Some, might not have any but, the majority will.
Our rules on the Fire Department were, on disc braked rigs, you could have cracks in the contact surface all you wanted but, if those cracks migrated into the outer radial (rusty parts) of the rotors, the rig was immediately placed out of service. On our rigs with drums, which dewindled down in the mid '80s, you ran with lots of cracks until the techs decided they were bad enough to do something about them.
I've heated those brakes up quite a few times, they're used to it. There are "heat checks" , heat cracks etc. all over those drums but, none are anywhere near SEVERE. As for the shoes, you can have lots in them too. If none of the shoes have broken pieces off due to the cracks, within reason I'd say you're good to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soneil422
Is it normal for the s-cam to be this far away from the brakes? Seems like that would take quite a bit of pedal to take up that slack and start the braking process. OR is that after the slack adjuster was backed off? Then once back on correctly, the gap would be taken up by the slack adjuster?
Thank You
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At this point in time, I cannot remember the relationship of the position of the S cam and, brake shoe travel. Air brake pedal movement is almost the same in a well-adjusted set of brakes as it is with some that are not so well adjusted, unlike hydraulic type setups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Lee
I might be an old cynic but what they said they found and what they actually saw might be two different things
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Well Sir, sometimes being an "old cynic" is what pays off in being "cautious" when it comes time to "pay" for technical services, especially on our rather large rolling gymnasiums. A really good technician, "mechanic" as it used to be called, is not only hard to get but, worth his weight in gold, as they say. Because a good one, quite often does not charge exorbitant high prices but, in fact will charge accordingly due to the fact that, they ARE GOOD and, will not take an extra long time to do a job that normally takes a lot less.
And yes, the "unknowledgeable" or, "unsuspecting" public, is at the mercy of such "less compitant" techs or, at the very least, less educated or less trained. And, as you say, what they saw, may not be what they're describing to the OP.
So, to the OP here, my advice, get the proper tools, a good place to work, the proper safety equipment i.e. Jack stands, good stable large blocks of wood, whatever it takes to be safe and stable. And, if possible, get someone with a bit of air brake experience to at least, "coach" you along or, give good, qualified advice on, procedures, tools, results from inspections, needed or, NOT NEEDED replacement parts etc.
You will be greatly satisfied at the end due to knowing the fact that the job was done right, it was done efficiently, and, not to mention, you SAVED a few bucks that can be put into the diesel tank for TRIPS,
Scott.
P.S. Here's just a couple of the tools I use in doing a job like this. They are invaluable. The first is the "torque multiplier" bought off ebay, Worth its weight in gold. I can sit on my butt and, with one arm, loosen ALL TEN, 450 ft. lb. lug nuts with that tool.
The second one is kind of a luxury but, is used on my 900 lb. Honda Goldwing. It's $100.00 Sears motorcycle jack. It works flawlessly for the assistance in removing and re-installing those, very awkward and heavy, brake drums.
The third is, a Wheel dolly. It too is invaluable. With just a few lbs. of lift on the handle, you can lift the 160 lb. tire and wheel combo and, dolly it around to store it while you're doing the work on the rest of the brake system.
Scott
__________________
2004 ITASCA HORIZON 36GD, 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Toad '20 Honda NC750X DCT
Retired-29.5 yrs, SDFD, Ham - KI6OND
Me, Karla and the Heidi character, (mini Schnauzer)!
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01-17-2015, 06:57 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Commercial Point, Ohio
Posts: 174
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Thanks for the tips. I believe the cracks were found during an inspection where the wheels/drums were not removed. I'm hoping the cracks are nothing.
__________________
Scott -- Commercial Point, Ohio
2012 Winnebago Tour 42QD
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01-18-2015, 12:00 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Out there, somewhere
Posts: 9,899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soneil422
Thanks for the tips. I believe the cracks were found during an inspection where the wheels/drums were not removed. I'm hoping the cracks are nothing.
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Roger that Sir, keep us informed of what you find will you?
Scott
__________________
2004 ITASCA HORIZON 36GD, 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Toad '20 Honda NC750X DCT
Retired-29.5 yrs, SDFD, Ham - KI6OND
Me, Karla and the Heidi character, (mini Schnauzer)!
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01-18-2015, 05:43 PM
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#19
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Moderator Emeritus
Country Coach Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Glen Allen, VA
Posts: 7,902
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And don't forget the BFH
__________________
2007 Country Coach Allure Siskiyou Summit, sold/traded Nov. 2018.
2019 Grand Designs 384GK-R 5th wheel. Glen Allen, VA
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01-21-2015, 09:31 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Full Time USA
Posts: 2,216
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Front axle brake job was one of the first tasks for me after purchase. The right front seal was gone & the shoes where SOAKED with oil! I mean ENCRUSTED!.
One of the best purchases to date was the tire dolly & that torque multiplier, just like Fire-up's photos. Seals & shoes cost me a WHOPPING $130.00. Did all the work sitting on a stool. Tool me all of 15 minutes to get the tire off.
I also purchased a brake buddy, tool used to adjust brakes. After install I cranked the slack adjuster till she stopped & then backed off 1/2 turn.
__________________
Robert & Deb
07 Discovery 39v FWS Full Timers, Henniker NH
1K solar - 05 Jeep Grand Cherokee
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01-21-2015, 09:39 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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Most DP's will easily go over 100,000 miles before the brakes need touching if you've used the exhaust/jake brake correctly. Unless there's an oil leak, then all bets are off.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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03-18-2015, 07:57 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Charlton, NY
Posts: 523
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Just rolled 100K miles....time to check the break pads....
__________________
2002 Itasca Horizon 34HD FL XC Chassis/CAT 3126 330HP, 2005 Ford Explorer, Falcon II bar, ReadyBreak, BlueOx.
More Toads: 6x12 enclosed, Beta 200 RR RE, Regal LSR 2100
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03-19-2015, 12:25 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bainbridge Island, Wa
Posts: 557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D
Most DP's will easily go over 100,000 miles before the brakes need touching if you've used the exhaust/jake brake correctly. Unless there's an oil leak, then all bets are off.
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Thanks for that, it was going to be my post, how long before serious wear occurs and I need to replace mine.
__________________
2004 Newmar Kountry Star Diesel Pusher, Chevy Tracker, Kizzy, Desi,Rosie, Red Ryder and Trek our Vizsla's
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03-19-2015, 03:17 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Out there, somewhere
Posts: 9,899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattlePirat
Thanks for that, it was going to be my post, how long before serious wear occurs and I need to replace mine.
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SeattlePirat,
The pictures you see in my earlier post showing the shoes, drums etc., are of my brakes and, at that time, are right at 60,000 miles. Now, based on my driving/stopping tactics, and the way they appear now (the same as the pictures), should we keep this coach, I'd say that those shoes/drums "Should" easily last another 60,000.
Scott
__________________
2004 ITASCA HORIZON 36GD, 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Toad '20 Honda NC750X DCT
Retired-29.5 yrs, SDFD, Ham - KI6OND
Me, Karla and the Heidi character, (mini Schnauzer)!
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03-19-2015, 06:57 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRE UP
SeattlePirat,
The pictures you see in my earlier post showing the shoes, drums etc., are of my brakes and, at that time, are right at 60,000 miles. Now, based on my driving/stopping tactics, and the way they appear now (the same as the pictures), should we keep this coach, I'd say that those shoes/drums "Should" easily last another 60,000.
Scott
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question for you... how and what does the air park brake do???
thanks
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03-19-2015, 07:08 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVRVLUVR
question for you... how and what does the air park brake do???
thanks
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On a rig with air brakes the rear brakes have a double acting brake "can" on them. The service brakes apply the brakes using air pressure. The parking brake is actually spring loaded and air pressure keeps them from applying. In the case of air leaks or compressor failure the lack of air applies the parking brake. When you pull the parking brake handle you release the air and it applies the rear brakes using VERY strong springs.
Here's a like to the WIKI that explains it better than I do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_brake_(road_vehicle)
Our, new to us, Magna has all wheel air disks, but it still uses the same type of "can" to apply them
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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03-19-2015, 07:59 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Out there, somewhere
Posts: 9,899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D
On a rig with air brakes the rear brakes have a double acting brake "can" on them. The service brakes apply the brakes using air pressure. The parking brake is actually spring loaded and air pressure keeps them from applying. In the case of air leaks or compressor failure the lack of air applies the parking brake. When you pull the parking brake handle you release the air and it applies the rear brakes using VERY strong springs.
Here's a like to the WIKI that explains it better than I do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_brake_(road_vehicle)
Our, new to us, Magna has all wheel air disks, but it still uses the same type of "can" to apply them
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Yep,
Pretty much the correct explanation of how a "Parking Brake" works on an air braked vehicle. The only thing I might add is, there are tanks on board that store air. The braking system is designed in such that, in the event a loss of air pressure is sustained, you have good, well working brakes, up until the pressure on the gauges reads close to 30 psi. At 65 psi, you will hear a warning buzzer telling you, HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM!
At 30 psi., that is when the air pressure is not strong enough to restrain those seriously strong springs in the rear brake cans from applying the brakes. So, between what ever pressure your system was operation on, say, around 120 or so, you have from 120 psi., to 30 psi, to get to an appropriate place to park your rig. It all depends on how bad the leak is and, how many times the brakes are applied during the pressure loss.
Scott
__________________
2004 ITASCA HORIZON 36GD, 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Toad '20 Honda NC750X DCT
Retired-29.5 yrs, SDFD, Ham - KI6OND
Me, Karla and the Heidi character, (mini Schnauzer)!
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06-29-2015, 09:45 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soneil422
That, I believe. I'll be checking them when it warms up and replacing as necessary. I may not find anything. (Fingers crossed)
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If you see a hairline crack in the shoe from the side, that for the most part is normal.
To actually verify you have a bad shoe, the drum has to be removed so that you can see the cross section of the shoe.
23K on the miles unless you are driving in extremely dirty conditions, your drums will not need replacing.
Unlike in regular automotive brake maintenance, commercial operators don't normally resurface the drums at the time shoes are replaced. (its a money saving move).
With that said, I would add a caution, (I would do a resurface on the front drums every time the shoes are replaced).
Reason being, the drums may not have worn evenly, and after reassembly, you could experience an uneven pull to one side when applying the brakes.
Since you have a 50/50 chance of this happening, in my opinion its not worth the chance to gamble on it.
Honestly, I have a hard time believing you actually need to replace your brake shoes at 23K miles.
I base this on the fact, commercial trucks and busses typically will not need bake service until the 70-100K mile range, and thats with heavy use.
__________________
Dan & Loretta, US Army Retired Aero Scout Pilot
2012 Fleetwood Providence 42P Class A/DP
Spartan Chassis, 8.9L Cummins 450HP
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