Stop Engine Warning caused by Low Coolant!

[RickO]

We're currently in the middle of our first real trip in our new Itasca Ellipse 40FD (400hp Cummins ISL on Freightliner Evolution Chasis) and had a real problem I wanted to share in hopes of helping others avoid it.

Headed up the Grapevine grade on I5 near L.A., I was shocked to see the "STOP ENGINE!" warning light come on. All seemed to be fine with temp and oil pressure in normal levels and everything respinding as expected... but not being one to mess with such a warning, I pulled to the side. I waited 5 min and restarted and everything seemed ok for about 2 miles when it happened again.

I waited another 5 min and restarted, only to have the warning come on for a third time so I pulled to the side and called Coach Net.

Coach Net immediately decided that I needed to be towed 40 miles to a Cummins dealer in Bakersfield. Coach Net called back to say that the Cummins dealer and asked for me to ensure that I didn't have a low coolant level since that had caused the "Stop Engine!" warning on the new Evolution Chasis.

I visually checked the coolant tank and saw the level was between the min and max levels so assumed that was a normal operating level for a warm engine. I explained that I was headed uphill but they said they didn't think that would have a big impact.

Bottom line is that we spent 6 hours at the side of a dangerous highway getting our brand new rig towed and another five hours getting the problem diagnosed only to find it was completely unessary!

Turns out that the "Stop Engine!" warning was generated by a coolant level which was about a gallon low! The tech found that the engine had overheated at some point (he theorized during the delivery trip across country) and that had probably resulted in a loss of coolant which wasn't sufficient to trigger the warning until I started up the first steep hill. The reason the coolant tank appeared to be within the operating zone was because of internal "baffels" which segnemt coolant into several compartments within the tank. Looking at the front of the tank, one can only see the outter most compartment...which appeared to be within operating range. In order to "really" fill the tank, coolant needs to be added until it actually exceeds the "max" level and pours over a "dam" into the rest of the tank.

The tech did a great job of explaining what had happened and then beat the snot out of my engine on a dyno to make sure that all was in order.

Being a retired Director of Customer Support for Hewlett-Packard, I came away with two objective thoughts... and a lot of emotions:

1) More effort should be made to remotely diagnose problems before ordering a tow. This event cost Freightliner a lot of money and my family a lot of time and consternation... all unnecessary.

2) There is a wealth of data contained in the onboard computer and it needs to be accessible by means other than a tech in the shop armed with a laptop.

Ok, enough for now. We narrowly avoided having to "camp" at the Cummins dealer over the weekend since it was late on Friday but were able to continue on the Phoenix that night and all is well.

Hopefully this info will help others avoid what my family and I had to endure.

RickO (smiling again )

[RickO]

We're currently in the middle of our first real trip in our new Itasca Ellipse 40FD (400hp Cummins ISL on Freightliner Evolution Chasis) and had a real problem I wanted to share in hopes of helping others avoid it.

Headed up the Grapevine grade on I5 near L.A., I was shocked to see the "STOP ENGINE!" warning light come on. All seemed to be fine with temp and oil pressure in normal levels and everything respinding as expected... but not being one to mess with such a warning, I pulled to the side. I waited 5 min and restarted and everything seemed ok for about 2 miles when it happened again.

I waited another 5 min and restarted, only to have the warning come on for a third time so I pulled to the side and called Coach Net.

Coach Net immediately decided that I needed to be towed 40 miles to a Cummins dealer in Bakersfield. Coach Net called back to say that the Cummins dealer and asked for me to ensure that I didn't have a low coolant level since that had caused the "Stop Engine!" warning on the new Evolution Chasis.

I visually checked the coolant tank and saw the level was between the min and max levels so assumed that was a normal operating level for a warm engine. I explained that I was headed uphill but they said they didn't think that would have a big impact.

Bottom line is that we spent 6 hours at the side of a dangerous highway getting our brand new rig towed and another five hours getting the problem diagnosed only to find it was completely unessary!

Turns out that the "Stop Engine!" warning was generated by a coolant level which was about a gallon low! The tech found that the engine had overheated at some point (he theorized during the delivery trip across country) and that had probably resulted in a loss of coolant which wasn't sufficient to trigger the warning until I started up the first steep hill. The reason the coolant tank appeared to be within the operating zone was because of internal "baffels" which segnemt coolant into several compartments within the tank. Looking at the front of the tank, one can only see the outter most compartment...which appeared to be within operating range. In order to "really" fill the tank, coolant needs to be added until it actually exceeds the "max" level and pours over a "dam" into the rest of the tank.

The tech did a great job of explaining what had happened and then beat the snot out of my engine on a dyno to make sure that all was in order.

Being a retired Director of Customer Support for Hewlett-Packard, I came away with two objective thoughts... and a lot of emotions:

1) More effort should be made to remotely diagnose problems before ordering a tow. This event cost Freightliner a lot of money and my family a lot of time and consternation... all unnecessary.

2) There is a wealth of data contained in the onboard computer and it needs to be accessible by means other than a tech in the shop armed with a laptop.

Ok, enough for now. We narrowly avoided having to "camp" at the Cummins dealer over the weekend since it was late on Friday but were able to continue on the Phoenix that night and all is well.

Hopefully this info will help others avoid what my family and I had to endure.

RickO (smiling again )

[Pusherman]

RickO,

Thanks for your writeup. Good learnings.

We too have been 'stranded' along the side of a road, and then towed to a service center. Last one was recently when our power steering pump went out on our brand new coach. Spent 2 nights at a Freightliner dealership. Not fun.

[Garbageman]

RickO, I'm glad you and the family are safe and your coach is running well but a third thought should be added:

3. Why was the coolant reservoir designed in such a way that it doesn't give a true reading of how full the reservoir actually is?

It seems that anyone of us can be fooled by this poor design.

Paul

[SargeW]

Rick,

Sorry to hear about your poor luck, but always think of it this way, I could have been worse.

But your right about being able to diagnose a problem yourself. Here is a solution for you. If you have a laptop and use it on the road, this is a great solution. I learned about this program from another member, John Canefield and it is awesome. It is called VMSpc, and it is make by a company called Silverleaf. They make a variety of engine diagnose stand alone units you can buy, and all hook right into your engine diagnostic port that the techs use. They provide an amazing amount of easy to read and understand information. One of the functions is a trouble code section that displays not only the code, but a plain english translation that would be very helpful in a situation such as yours.

The stand alone units are kinda pricy, but they also offer a software version that loads onto your laptop for about $100. Do a search on VMSpc and you will find tons of info and install tips (some of them mine). It could save you a ton of time and money in the future.

I have pics included in one of my posts, and John Canefield has pics on his web site linked to the forums.

Good luck, have fun with the rig!

Sarge

[Unofficial Ftl Emp]

First of all sorry to hear about your ordeal. One solution im surprised the dealership didnt mention to you for the future is disabling the parameter within the ECM that causes the engine shut down sequence to come on for low coolant. I think most have that option but from the factory it is set to the on position so that when it does get low on coolant you'll get the red check engine light and whammo you'll ultimately get shut down. But if you disable that function you will get all the bells and whistles but no shutdown sequence.
Just a tip for next time I suppose.

And SargeW has a very good tip there!! cheap and very money saving tip if ya ever break down out of warranty