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Old 06-10-2018, 02:31 PM   #1
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Pin weighing

Question for you fulltimers or even you fully loaded snowbirds. What are your pin weights? Mainly concerned with 40' u it's or at least close.

Thanks
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Old 06-10-2018, 09:48 PM   #2
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40' New Horizons Majestic will weigh in the 19-22000lb. Pin should be 20% or better. So 5000 or so. Depending on options.....

We had a 38' Carriage 5th wheel before our DRV. Rolling fulltime we weighed 18500 with a pin of 4800. Our current DRV 44' Memphis weighs 24800 with a current pin of 5000.
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Old 06-10-2018, 11:38 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by HDrider View Post
Question for you fulltimers or even you fully loaded snowbirds. What are your pin weights? Mainly concerned with 40' u it's or at least close.

Thanks
Before we decided to purchase our New Horizons, we made a list of all of our questions and sent them to Cole. He answered everything we asked and we followed up with phone calls and then a visit to the factory. I feel you would get the best and most current info if you would speak with him or Drew. They are helpful and not pushy at all.
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:58 AM   #4
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We had a phone conference with Cole late last week and you ae correct, very informative and easy to talk to. However in his own words he has never fulltimed and it's nice to hear from folks that have real life experience on a few things. Not taking away from Coles knowledge at all, in fact I'm sure we will be speaking with him again this week as we are at the point of deciding NH or DRV and are at the number crunching and deciding just what rig we would need stages.
I know, big difference between DRV & NH but also a bug difference in weights and dollars. If quality was all we were concerned about it would be an easy choice.
Thanks for your comment.

Oh with that said, do you have an answer to the question?
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Old 06-11-2018, 08:47 AM   #5
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Our 41' NH (actual outside length 41'-10") was predicted to weigh 19,000 lbs, with a pin weight of 4500 lbs. But it was a full custom design with our own layout, so very difficult to predict. Once completed, it actually weighed 21,180 lbs empty and dry, with a pin weight of 5640 lbs and GVWR 25,000. With our stuff loaded (we are half-timers), plus a half tank of water, the weight was 23,760 and 6200 lbs on the pin. That was WAY over the rating of our 3500 dually. We are fairly light travelers to begin with, so there wasn't much to get rid of and certainly not enough to get within the truck's ratings.

The solution was to change the stairs to a Lippert Solid Step, which folds up on the outside of the trailer, allowing the axles to be moved forward 20". That reduced the pin weight by 1160 lbs to 5060. We still have to be careful what we bring along, and try to put as much weight as possible to the rear of the trailer in order to stay within the limits of our 3500 dually.

Currently looking to upgrade the truck. Still don't want to go to a medium duty truck, so will probably go with the F350 diesel dually, which oddly enough has a higher cargo capacity than the F450, and still lots of towing capacity for my 25,000 GVWR trailer.
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Old 06-11-2018, 09:10 AM   #6
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Our 41' NH (actual outside length 41'-10") was predicted to weigh 19,000 lbs, with a pin weight of 4500 lbs. But it was a full custom design with our own layout, so very difficult to predict. Once completed, it actually weighed 21,180 lbs empty and dry, with a pin weight of 5640 lbs and GVWR 25,000. With our stuff loaded (we are half-timers), plus a half tank of water, the weight was 23,760 and 6200 lbs on the pin. That was WAY over the rating of our 3500 dually. We are fairly light travelers to begin with, so there wasn't much to get rid of and certainly not enough to get within the truck's ratings.

The solution was to change the stairs to a Lippert Solid Step, which folds up on the outside of the trailer, allowing the axles to be moved forward 20". That reduced the pin weight by 1160 lbs to 5060. We still have to be careful what we bring along, and try to put as much weight as possible to the rear of the trailer in order to stay within the limits of our 3500 dually.

Currently looking to upgrade the truck. Still don't want to go to a medium duty truck, so will probably go with the F350 diesel dually, which oddly enough has a higher cargo capacity than the F450, and still lots of towing capacity for my 25,000 GVWR trailer.
Thank you, this is exactly why I asked, real life experience's. Yeas, the F350 has a payload of 5770 and oddly more than the F450 at 5300 & change.
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:50 PM   #7
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I would encourage you to look at the tires, brakes, and turning radius of the F350 and F450 (both dually). Our 2016 F450 had a higher load rating than the 2016 F350. But it also has 19.5 rims, larger disc brakes, and a tighter turning radius (believe it or not!). Yes, I did have air bags installed, but I had air bags installed on the F350! The towing capacity of the 2016 F450 is 31000#. Our Majestic is 39'. But I changed the 7000# MorRyde spindles changed to 8000# with Kodiak disk brakes. In fact, the Majestic can stop the truck! Don't concentrate on load rating, look at the stopping power! Oh, I also had 18 ply tires (Load rating J) put on the Majestic! Overkill, but I feel safe in towing! Plus, larger radius tires means less revolutions per mile, and cooler tires.

Just my two cents,
Ron
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:46 PM   #8
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Ron, My NH is very heavy on the pin, so I have to look at both. Yes, I would prefer to have an F450 for exactly the reasons you stated. But the 470 lbs difference in payload means I overload the F450. The F350 still pulls 27,300 lbs with 3.55 gears, or 31,300 with 4.10's. It is ironic that I have to use the "less safe" F350 in order to be "safe" with the pin weight...

I looked at an F550, but they don't come with the higher end trims, and have greatly reduced power (330 HP vs 450) and torque (750 lb-ft vs 935). Again very odd... but apparently all the manufacturers reduce the power and torque in order to give a much longer warranty.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:28 AM   #9
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I'm all for the bigger brakes and everything the F450 or Ram 5500's offer but they don't come with beds and after calling Classy Chassis Monday just to get a rough idea of what we would be looking at cost wise I really started to pucker.
I'm afraid we will either push the limits of something like a 5500 or do with what we have.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:41 AM   #10
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You folks need to find the other forum that has the MDT and HDT sections. There are a lot of folks that have already done the experiment of pulling large loads with too small of a truck. It cost them a lot of money in repairs although the truck would pull the weight. HDrider you are going from a truck motor and chassis to a pickup truck motor and chassis. I am not sure you are going to want this setup. You are looking at overkill on a lot of things then looking at just getting by on the truck. I am sure I will get lots of flack but this is how I feel!!! Read on.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:54 AM   #11
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You folks need to find the other forum that has the MDT and HDT sections. There are a lot of folks that have already done the experiment of pulling large loads with too small of a truck. It cost them a lot of money in repairs although the truck would pull the weight. HDrider you are going from a truck motor and chassis to a pickup truck motor and chassis. I am not sure you are going to want this setup. You are looking at overkill on a lot of things then looking at just getting by on the truck. I am sure I will get lots of flack but this is how I feel!!! Read on.
No flack from me, I fully get it and that's exactly why I am researching everything I can and everything we are looking at, 5th wheel, truck, insurance, everything. If at the end of the day numbers of any kind don't line up with what we feel comfortable doing we will move to a brand that the numbers will line up in and if we don't like that we will just keep traveling like we are.
Hey, we are retired and on a fixed income that's comfortable but not over the top and have a nest egg but certainly not large enough that we can start making large mistakes. I'm NOT going back to work LOL!!!
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:12 PM   #12
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HDrider,

There are many used RV HDT tractors out there that are ready to be purchased used and have hundreds of thousands of miles ready to be used. Have you looked at All About RV Haulers | RV Hauler Information Resources. I have seen many Peterson and Volvo HDT pullers already modified to carry a small car (Smart or Fiat) that were actually less expensive than our F450! We just camped next to a guy with a HDT ($20K) that bought it and has put 300,000 miles on it without any major expenses! Makes me wonder . . . Should I have bought a F450?

Just my two cents,
Ron
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:00 PM   #13
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I'm all for the bigger brakes and everything the F450 or Ram 5500's offer but they don't come with beds and after calling Classy Chassis Monday just to get a rough idea of what we would be looking at cost wise I really started to pucker.
I'm afraid we will either push the limits of something like a 5500 or do with what we have.
If you are saying push the limits of a Ram 5500HD cost wise for your budget then I understand. If you are referring to the capacities of the truck:

The real world math is: A Ram 5500HD with a Classy Hauler bed, aux fuel tank for a total of 112 gallons, loaded with tools and an air ride hitch (required for a NH) is rated for about a 26,500lb trailer with a 25% pin of ~6,650 lbs. The rear axle can handle up to a ~7,400 pin depending on the trailer weight. These are scale weight, known numbers. Not estimates.

Just be careful about "pickup truck" capacities, especially the rear axle ratings and don't forget about bed rail to trailer clearance with pickup beds.

It really doesn't matter what the truck is rated to tow. All those marketing tow numbers are with gooseneck trailers which have very low pin weights.
NH has worked to get the Summit weights down but just a word to the wise about having enough truck. Having enough truck makes the day much easier and far safer in a bad situation. To quote a friend, "Ask me how I know this." You would not be the first to decide on a bigger truck after purchasing a pickup.

Just commenting from the real world of 1,000s of miles and many years of towing all over North America. BTW, NH weights are just estimates. What yours will weigh off-the-line is TBD down the street at the truck scales when it is finished. "Ask me how I know this."
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:03 PM   #14
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Our trailer at 17856 had a pin weight of 2645. Tri-axle with two motorcycles loaded.
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