Community Forums

sailor_lou · 11-13-2013, 01:49 PM

Hi Al,

I must be extra thick today, because I still can't see your point. I agree when traveling the house is riding on the air bags and is somewhat isolated from any flex in the chassis and that is a good thing. However, if you are parked and the ground is not level the air bags can only make so much resulting in some twist to the frame.

However, when the jacks are properly deployed they will compensate for the uneven ground to the point of even lifting a wheel (or two) in the air if required, which is beyond the air bag capability. So wouldn't the frame be the most square and level after jacks were deployed to level the rig? As you stated the whole idea is to have the slide openings as square as possible during extension or retraction so I would think it is most level on the jacks. What am I missing?

I'm not trying to be a PITA here, but I never understood Monaco's logic and now that it applies to Entegra I'm really interested, esp. since Entegra will most likely be my next coach.

Lou
05 TS Envoy 38DS04

rag_ftw · 11-13-2013, 02:56 PM

OK guys here is one of those, "I wish I had not asked" posts!
I just got off the phone with Mike O'Connell at Entegra, who indicated he was an old Travel Supreme guy, and he assured me that TS & Entegra operators should be running out the slides prior to leveling. He even sent me an Entegra Quick start guide that states the same thing. Looks like they want the air bags full anytime the slides run in or out!
Is it possible when the bags are dumped the slide could make hard contact with something while moving in and out? I am grasping at straws here to justify a procedure that is counter intuitive to me!

sailor_lou · 11-13-2013, 06:07 PM

I agree, it still sounds counter intuitive to me too. Other than sending the info sheet, I take it he didn't provide you an explanation for the sequence.

Since all the house parts move together I can't see how the air bags will provide any additional clearance, but you never know. In any case, I'm sticking to what I feel comfortable with until I get a better explanation on why it is bad thing. Mostly because I do know when the rig is tilted the motor works harder pulling the slides uphill and I have observed an uneven gap between the slides and the fix part of the house the few times I have tried it. Good luck in whichever method you use.

Lou
05 TS Envoy 38DS04

alfetch · 11-13-2013, 06:25 PM

Lou...

Let's look at it this way....windshields pop out when coaches are leveling in extremely unlevel situations.....and not just on Travel Supremes. Why? Because of the twist forced on the frame in order to achieve a level condition. That doesn't happen when you're driving over that same unlevel ground, does it? I think the house stays square on the air bags when the chassis is twisting around when we're driving. I could be all wet, but I've never had a slide bind when extending or retracting, nor have I ever had a windshield pop out, as long as the system is aired up before I move the slides and level after they're deployed. But, like I stated before, if what you've been doing is working for you, that's all that matters. By the way, I fully agree that it seems counter-intuitive to do it the way I'm suggesting.

As an aside, I just had a windshield replaced due to a rock chip that became a really nasty crack from top to bottom during our recent trip to Alaska. The windshield crew was having trouble getting it to fit the hole. I was in a CG, all set up and leveled. Upon seeing their struggles, I fired up the engine and aired the system up and retracted the jacks. Guess what? Problem solved....the windshield popped right in. I left the coach aired up for a day to allow the windshield to set well, and then dropped the air and leveled the coach. Haven't had a problem in 3000 miles and two months of traveling since then. It's all about the stress we put on these houses when we level them.

Happy trails.

brobox · 11-13-2013, 06:27 PM

Lou, you are one heck of a nice guy and a good friend to help me out like that

I wish the "slides out" was the only new thing I had to learn, there is going to be a lot more. At least all of the engine filters are in one compartment and NO MORE crawling under the coach to change them. I think I am going to like the "new" changes

strippit · 11-15-2013, 08:22 PM

Al is on the money the slides are set to operate freely on the air bags. the air bags and jacks are on different stress points of the frame it flex's to some degree from air bags to jacks

Delbert
05 TS Select

rag_ftw · 11-15-2013, 10:15 PM

Al & Delbert,
You guys explained it well enough that even a helicopter pilot could understand.
The windshield install was an eye opener!

Guess I will be slides out before I dump the bags in the future. (If I can break the old habit!)
Thanks all for your input!

alfetch · 11-16-2013, 07:20 AM

Robert...

Maybe my explanation was easily understood by a helicopter pilot, because, I, too, am a rotary wing jockey.....or, at least was in my younger days. Haven't flown one in 15 years, but have about 1000 hours behind the stick of a Bell Jet Ranger. Still fly planes when I get the chance. Sold my v-tail Bonanza when we retired to FL.

Safe travels.

sailor_lou · 11-16-2013, 09:43 AM

Thanks guys, I guess I need to play around and look closer at my slides and leveling sequence next spring.

Lou
05 TS Envoy 38DS04

rag_ftw · 11-16-2013, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailor_lou

Thanks guys, I guess I need to play around and look closer at my slides and leveling sequence next spring.

Lou
05 TS Envoy 38DS04

Ditto. I did have the starboard kitchen slide bind one time when I was extending. The coach was in my barn, which has a level cement floor, but I can't remember leveler or bag status. I'll try to duplicate the event and will report back on the results.

delcirose · 11-17-2013, 09:53 AM

Ok, folks what are we going to do when the ground that we pull into is very uneven and one side is say a foot lower than the other. Sure the rig will be level on ride height on all four corners as to how they are set but we do not have adaptive air ride system leveling the box. So in affect the slide will probably go out ok but when you get ready to leave and you start the system and get air up to 120 pounds. Then shut the engine off and retract the legs and wait to the air bags fill up the motor home will have the slide on the low side still one foot lower and without jacking up the current available to the slide motor it will stall out and will not retract. I know this first hand because one day mine was a little off more than it should have been and I needed to put the legs down more on that side and then it would retract. So I see shear pins and slide motor failures and possible problems where the ends of the slide rails attach to the slide putting undue pressure where it is not needed? Am I missing something in all this, just going by real world experience and traveling quite a bit being a full timer and not always having the best spots to pull into! ????

sailor_lou · 11-17-2013, 11:34 AM

Tom,

I agree on a severe angle the slide motor may have a problem (esp. the large living room slide with the ramp), so that's why I plan on "playing around" with it next spring to see how things work out (ie: checking slide to body gap, slide motor speed/current/noise). I think if one side was lower by a foot, I'd find another site/campground, but your point is still valid even if it is only 5"-6".

Maybe on the higher end models the air system can be used to level the coach, but on my entry level Envoy all the air bags do is adjust ride height, which is pretty much a fixed distance between the axle to the frame. So if the wheels are low on one side the body will be just as low and the slide motor will need to overcome the angle. In addition, I have a straight front axle on mine so the overall box may not respond the same as a rig with an IFS. It will be interesting.

Lou
05 TS Envoy 38DS04

delcirose · 11-17-2013, 12:54 PM

Lou,
You are exactly coming at this from the same direction I am. First our units are not like the new ones that have adaptive ride control. They do not adjust to keep the box as level as possible no matter how much one side of the road is to the other within reason of course. I have read on sites like Newel where we people comment how they seem to always be on a level platform. Perhaps the new Entegra's do the same thing. I have no experience with that so I can't say. But on our units we can be pretty tilted one side to the other if the road is crowned enough or if the site we are pulling into is not level front to rear or side to side. I am in a site right now that is a foot lower in the back than it is in the front, side to side not so bad. But I have been in sites that the rear of the site over a 40' length is both different than the font up and down and side to side, this causes twist and flex in the frame when the legs go down. Not desirable for sure but in some cases it is either that or the highway so we do the best we can. No way will my slides retract under those conditions unless helping it on the outside or setting the potentiometers that control the slide current up so high that the shear pins or motor is next to go. So to this point I say I guess we are Travel Supreme and NOT Integra.

Tom

alfetch · 11-18-2013, 06:17 AM

Let's not confuse level and square. I think it's far more important to have the slide openings square, so the slides don't bind when moving them, than it is to be level. Let's face it, in an extreme situation we should be looking at the lesser of two evils. Ideally, every site we choose is perfectly level, at which point the argument is moot. The other reality is that every time we move a slide we put a little more time on an electric motor that will wear, eventually, wear out. So, in these extreme situations, a little help by pushing from the outside might not be a bad idea, especially if the motor's got a few years on it. Just my opinion. Do what works best for you.