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Old 08-18-2012, 08:26 PM   #15
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After being pointed out by another person, it seems my 2013 Aspire has a poor paint job. The lower section on both sides suffers from severe orange peel. I actually thought it was a finish to prevent nicks. You can clearly see the difference in shine. As I explored more, the more evident it becomes that this orange peel is around windows too.

Not only that, I small piece of pain flaked off a cargo door when it touched a patio chair. The paint seems thin.

I am not happy with this type of craftsmanship on our new coach. It never should have passed an inspection at the paint shop, or when Entegra gave it a once over. I should have been more in tune to this when I picked it up.

A $270K coach should not have this major finish problem.

I understand a new coach will have problems, but a terrible paint job? Not acceptable.

There is also over spray on the rubber area by the side radiator and on the front tire.

I am in contact with Entegra at the present time. They want pictures, but I am unable to provide them while we are on vacation.


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I have worked in and around the auto business (paint and body) for over 30 years. my coach has the same orange peel (op) mainly around the edges and windows (typical results that are found in high production shops) and swirls from buffing out the clear coat. It is evident that Precision is not wet sanding below the slides on the entire coach and buffing to a gloss. This is noticeable on all the doors on the bottom of the coach. Stand back and look at the difference in gloss between the upper sides of your rig and the lower doors and you should see the difference in shine and OP.

I wouldn't worry about the paint application, from what i can tell they did a good job. They just didn't take the time to put a $270,000 finish on the coach. It is an easy fix, it is just going to take wet sanding and buffing to get the finish you deserve.

So I will once again take it to a repair facility and I will find out if they will let someone else perform the work. I will let you know the results.
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:27 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Ann n Gene View Post
Bob and Robert, I agree totally with both of you. When I was at the factory I went over to Precision and quite frankly was concerned about the quantity of work they were doing. They were WAY behind and no one wants to loose business sooooooo many times quality can suffer. On to Entegra, they sure should have caught this and sent it back to precision but they are 9 months behind also. As much as they want to make sure of the quality of coaches, it appears that some one got in too big of a hurry to get the coaches out the door and to the dealers. I still have confidence that Entegra will get this fixed and do so promptly.
Bob, I have always thought that Precision was overrated and overpriced. They do a good but certainly not fantastic job and it is not rocket science. There are plenty of shops that can do quality paint jobs out there. The main advantage with Precision for me is their exclusive use of Sikkens paint and with all the new federal regs in the last few years even that is not what it once was by a long shot. All just my opinion.

PS-- Not to be a smart a@# but I really do not have a lot of interest in what the cause is or what they find. I DO HAVE A LOT OF INTEREST that they find it, fix it, and put a process in place that will insure that it does not go undected by quality control again. Entegra seems committed to the idea that THEY, NOT THE CUSTOMER, is responsible for quality control and as such I am sure that they will fix this.
I didn't know that Sikkens made paint. They made their reputation with wood stains and they are fantastic. If they do I cannot imagine it being better than Imron, Awl Grip or Sterling. You can even see orange peel on a Mercedes, although you have to look closely. That is one of the things they eliminate in the AMG process. If it is too noticeable it is a bad nozzle setting. It is not due to rushing, it is due to the person doing the spraing not knowing how to adjust the spray equipment. It takes the same amount of time to do it the wrong way as the right way. precision should find out who sprayed that coach and find another position for him.
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Old 08-19-2012, 12:20 PM   #17
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I have seen some of Precisions custom paint jobs and they are spectacular. However I'm sure Entegra is not paying the price that a retail customer would pay...therefore they are going to get a lesser quality job. Factor in the workload they are experiencing from Entegra and it is easy to see why the quality is slipping. Until Entegra has their own paint facility, with their own employees and QC people, the quality is going to be comprimised!
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Old 08-19-2012, 08:13 PM   #18
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Heard today that precision paint has opened a second facility aroind Wakarusa. Not sure how long ago, or if ther up and running yet.
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Old 08-21-2012, 05:46 PM   #19
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Happy to report, I picked up my coach this week, came off the line on the 10th, and the paint is fine. 2013 Anthem.
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:08 PM   #20
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If is the paint under clear coat, you have a real problem, if it the clear coat, you could do a fix, however it could be both...yuk
From Dupont...
Origin and Potential Causes:
  • Improper gun adjustment and techniques. Too little air pressure, wide fan patterns or spraying at excessive gun distances causes droplets to become too dry during their travel time to the work surface and they remain as formed by gun nozzle.
  • Extreme shop temperature. When air temperature is too high, droplets lose more solvent and dry out before they can flow and level properly.
  • Improper dry. Gun fanning before paint droplets have a chance to flow together will cause orange peel.
  • Improper flash or recoat time between coats. If first coats of enamel are allowed to become too dry, solvent in the paint droplets of following coats will be absorbed into the first coat before proper flow is achieved.
  • Wrong thinner or reducer. Under-diluted paint or paint thinned with fast evaporating thinners or reducers causes the atomized droplets to become too dry before reaching the surface. Too high viscosity.
  • Low shop temperature.
  • Too little thinner or reducer.
  • Materials not uniformly mixed. Many finishes are formulated with components that aid coalescence. If these are not properly mixed, orange peel will result.
  • Substrate not sanded thoroughly

Prevention Techniques:
  • Use proper gun adjustments, techniques, and air pressure.
  • Schedule painting to avoid temperature and humidity extremes.
  • Select the thinner or reducer that is suitable for existing conditions. The use of a slower evaporating thinner or reducer will overcome this.
  • Allow sufficient flash and dry time. Do not dry by fanning.
  • Allow proper drying time for undercoats and topcoats. Not too long or not too short.
  • Reduce to recommended viscosity with proper thinner/reducer.
  • Stir all pigmented undercoats and topcoats thoroughly.
  • Prepare and sand substrate correctly.
  • Follow recommendations on technical data sheets.


Remedy
  • For mild cases, sand and polish using recommended materials and techniques.
  • In extreme cases, sand down to smooth surface and refinish, using a slower evaporating thinner or reducer at the correct air pressure.
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Old 08-30-2012, 10:45 AM   #21
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Smile orange peel

There seems to be a little confusion about the orange peel on your coach. Let me help you understand. When your coach is painted and clearcoated, the entire unit is covered in orange peel. This is very normal. It would be impossible to paint something that large with out orangepeel. So what happens is after the clearcoat is dried, they wet sand and buff the entire coach. Sanding and buffing around edges and corners is difficult. That is why you see excessive orange peel in areas like around the windows, above and below the sliderooms where there may only only be a couple of inches of area, the floor rail, around door handles etc. Actually your entire coach looked like that when it came out of clear, and like I said that is compleatly normal. The large flat areas were just wet sanded and buffed to remove the majority of peel. There is nothing "wrong" with the paint on your coach, it just needs to be sanded and buffed a little better in the tight areas.
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:25 AM   #22
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Thank you for the informative post rv paint guy.
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:56 PM   #23
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Yeah... and the dog ate my homework. I'd give Precision notice: one more issue and you're done!! imo
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:37 PM   #24
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Yes, you can sand out the orange peel IF the clearcoat is thick enough, however the coaches I looked at the clear was too thin, thats the reason for the orange peel. There is no way Entegra can give Precision an ultimatum, they have all their eggs in Precisions basket.
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:39 AM   #25
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Yes, you can sand out the orange peel IF the clearcoat is thick enough, however the coaches I looked at the clear was too thin, thats the reason for the orange peel. There is no way Entegra can give Precision an ultimatum, they have all their eggs in Precisions basket.

You think that as a very large customer of Precision, Entegra would allow substandard quality simply because they outsource the paint process?

If push came to shove, I'd be willing to bet Entegra is more important to Precision than Precision to Entegra.

What I highly suspect, is that Entegra treats Precision with the same resepct they treat their customers with.

It's a good news/bad news story, we can all apreciate. As number of orders go up, so do chances for mistakes. Entegra will get their arms around the mistakes and create a process to resolve the issues. Assuming that hasn't already happened, they continue to offer they same great customer service they always have. For that, I am grateful.
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Old 09-01-2012, 08:14 AM   #26
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I have seen some of Precisions custom paint jobs and they are spectacular. However I'm sure Entegra is not paying the price that a retail customer would pay...therefore they are going to get a lesser quality job. Factor in the workload they are experiencing from Entegra and it is easy to see why the quality is slipping. Until Entegra has their own paint facility, with their own employees and QC people, the quality is going to be comprimised!
As someone who owns their own business, I would be willing to bet that Precision does not cut corners on the Entegras. When one customer/client makes up the bulk of your business you go way out of your way to make sure that customer/client is happy today, tomorrow, and the future. You don't stay in business by short cutting your biggest chunk of bread and butter.

With a backlog of now at least a year, my guess would be that the pressure to complete units quickly may be part of the problem or it may be THE problem. From what I have seen Entegra will take care of this problem very quickly and to the satisfaction of those who are affected.

Ed
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Old 09-01-2012, 08:35 AM   #27
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As someone who owns their own business, I would be willing to bet that Precision does not cut corners on the Entegras. When one customer/client makes up the bulk of your business you go way out of your way to make sure that customer/client is happy today, tomorrow, and the future. You don't stay in business by short cutting your biggest chunk of bread and butter.

With a backlog of now at least a year, my guess would be that the pressure to complete units quickly may be part of the problem or it may be THE problem. From what I have seen Entegra will take care of this problem very quickly and to the satisfaction of those who are affected.

Ed
I agree ; but the pressure to get them out is gotta be enormous. Probably need to open another whole facility to keep up and good luck finding the kind of craftsmen needed to do it right the first time. Remember in our society today real craftsmen are hard to find and there is no company loyalty with good reason. My 2011 serrano was put out so bad it was laughable and should have been embarrassing to thor but out it went anyway.
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:33 PM   #28
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Couple of things, there's not a paint job on anything that doesn't have a certain amount of orange peel also known as the wet look. It's the nature of urethane and polyurethane clear coats that are so prevalent in today's manufacturing processes. Sanding and buffing does have a tendency to reduce the overall appearance of orange peel. A person generally can't tell the thickness of clear coat simply by looking at it. As far as opening a new facility in today's environment, I doubt that you would be able to get permitted by EPA, or any of the other regulatory bodies inside of a year at best. Under air quality emission permits, companies are only allowed to emit a certain amount. If a company is near its threshold, all the extra business in the world is no good, as the fines exceed any money that could be made. As someone said earlier, not to mention the level of qualified people needed to expand. Sorry for the rant
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