Community Forums

Butte64 · 02-20-2018, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfix

The coach was brand new, the salesman said all would be taken care of before delivery, I just felt there were too many issues in a new coach, I had my heart set on entegra but it didn't work out.

I’m sorry about your bad experience. Did you look at just the one Entegra? Seems like something strange going on. Between the Tampa Super Shows, rallies, and visits to Lazydays I have probably been through close to 100 Entegras. I’ve never seen anything close to something as bad as back splash falling down. Only a few minor issues with fit and finish.
Seems like that dealer does not know how to sell an expensive coach if they are showing one with obvious problems.

kevinantholt · 02-20-2018, 07:57 AM

I will say this about what mrfix said and that is some dealers will rob parts and fixtures from coached to put into others that need repair or have been sold. I have experienced the same with a dealer in WA when I test drove an Anthem. That's why I went to Bend OR to buy my Coach. I blame the dealer on this not Entegra. Every RV has Issues but I believe a good dealer can minimize them. I Know my coach has been plugged in since the dealer took delivery. I have not had any issues yet except a few minor cosmetic ones that Either I could fix or Entegra handled. I have been totally happy with my purchase and would purchase another one hands down.

BattleWagon · 02-26-2018, 07:05 AM

The beefed up Freighliner chassis with the 60 degree wheel turn looks well designed. As a Spartan chassis owner, what are some superior features to Spartan? Do you think you’d like to have the 60 degree turning? Thanks!

Saltydog44 · 02-26-2018, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BattleWagon

The beefed up Freighliner chassis with the 60 degree wheel turn looks well designed. As a Spartan chassis owner, what are some superior features to Spartan? Do you think you’d like to have the 60 degree turning? Thanks!

We're on our third Entegra and the turning radius has never crossed our minds. But then maybe I am just oblivious. Wasn't that impressed with Comfort Drive either so maybe I just don't have the skill to discern the finer points.

Ann n Gene · 02-26-2018, 09:54 AM

We want Spartan chassis under our motorhome for service reasons. Freightliner is getting better but most truck dealers do not want to work on a motorhome and long wait times are not unusual. Spartan has more locations on RV dealers shops and dedicated bays in approved facilities. Also the K3 chassis is a bigger frame, tires, wheels tranny, and engine. It also has more storage bay room and clearance plus dual steering boxes and a set back axle for better turning to help offset the extra 5* wheel cut. JMHO

Cruzer · 02-28-2018, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BattleWagon

The beefed up Freighliner chassis with the 60 degree wheel turn looks well designed. As a Spartan chassis owner, what are some superior features to Spartan? Do you think you’d like to have the 60 degree turning? Thanks!

Keep in mind that these are advertised specs. The 60 degree wheelcut touted by Freightliner is based on when the front axles had 275 series tires. As the tires got fatter, going to 2852, 315s and even 365s the stops were limited to prevent contact with the frame.

But the specs were never changed so in reality you won't see a difference between the Freightliner and Spartan wheelcut. I've driven plenty of both brands and never could see a realistic difference in them. Our Spartan K3 with fat 365 series tires is an amazing drive and ride yet maneuvers just as well as other coaches I've driven - the exception being the Newell of course.

Personally, I would choose my chassis on other factors than the advertised wheel cut.

Smitty77 · 02-28-2018, 01:00 PM

Much has changed from when we were researching Monaco Executive & Signature along with the Holiday Rambler equivalents, are not in the mix now. Travel Supreme, well Entegra owner's know where Travel Supreme went

! Country Coach and Alpine or also gone.

About 2 1/2 years a go, a friend asked me to provide him and his wife with a short list of RV's they should consider for full timing. They had a generous budget, so I set this up into two tiers.

Entegra Cornerstone, Newmar King Aire and Essex, Foretravel were in one tier.

Prevost based Marathon, Liberty, Foretravel were in the second tier.

If I was personally shopping today, or another friend asked me my opinion, I'd have add a 1.5 tier between these - and also place the Foretravel Realm in that Tier.

Also if shopping for a replacement for our 04 Allure. I'd pick my budget range, and drop years to buy the top of these lines models, while remaining in budget. We prefer 40' for various favorite campgrounds we like. So today I'd look real carefully for a 40' 2 Slide Prevost Marathon - as for us and ideal coach. If I was nudged by the DW to a little longer coach, I'd do a close comparison to newer model years Realm and Cornerstone to the Prevost Marathon.

But as we all know, what is important to one person - is often not to another

!

Last comment. A bargain priced American Coach, will not be bargain if you do not like the house layout. If you do like the house layout of this bargain American, and when you test drive it you feel it handles and is as quiet as you like - then go for it

! If not, keep searching...

Best of luck to you,
Smitty

BattleWagon · 02-28-2018, 04:56 PM

Cruzer, Thanks for the good insight behind the scenes. What you are saying makes sense. The marketing department at work! Sounds like turning radius is not a factor. Do you have any concerns about the Freightliner Liberty chasis for the 600hp drivetrain? (I think I heard it referenced as K3 but I’m uncertain) Any concerns about AC Eagle from an engineering point of view as built by REV? I.e. any glaring system weaknesses or shortcuts being taken?
Warm regards!

BattleWagon · 02-28-2018, 05:17 PM

Smitty, Thanks for your comments and approach. I’ve been using that approach in my research which I read on one of your post probably 18 months ago.
I’m quite certain that my short list of brands (American, Entegra, Newmar) each build very good coaches. And each will provide years of great travel and the need for a few repairs along the way. I’m tying to deepen my understanding of the engineering design differences to prevent what I call unnecessary rude surprises. Price will certainly matter. And then it comes back to the basics of layout and in our case, interior color and design. A complex and wonderful challenge it is! I’m loving it all and I have no doubt, by working closely together, my wife and I will find a superb coach. We look forward to delightful years together traveling our beautiful country. I appreciate your enthusiasm along the way!! Warm regards.

lowejug · 02-28-2018, 05:19 PM

When I went from a 45 foot coach with a freight liner with the 60 degree
Wheel cut to my anthem With a spartan k2 with 50 degree wheel cut
I noticed the difference. Had to think a little harder on tight turns Had 295 series tires .. but by any means no reason to not choose entegra...
Entegra goes deep quality in every category ..

Mark D · 02-28-2018, 06:14 PM

I have a 2011 American Eagle, The liberty chassis we have is a spartan K3 Mountain Master on steroids. They start with the spartan k3 then beef it up with I beams , move the tank etc. It rides great plenty of power.

What sold us was the floor plan and the ability to get to the half bath and make lunch when slides are in.

I would say both are considered quality coaches. But getting a coach that has a floor plan you are not 100% happy with then all the other bells and whistles make no differance.

I will say the ride is great, it's quiet. Take a look at the door on an American Coach it's a bus door and has an air dead bolt. So when you put it in gear it secures the door so you have zero road noise.

Not sure what the cornerstone has vs that but the above is what we like about our coach.

Another plus is lifetime tech support....

Cruzer · 02-28-2018, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BattleWagon

Cruzer, Thanks for the good insight behind the scenes. What you are saying makes sense. The marketing department at work! Sounds like turning radius is not a factor. Do you have any concerns about the Freightliner Liberty chasis for the 600hp drivetrain? (I think I heard it referenced as K3 but I’m uncertain) Any concerns about AC Eagle from an engineering point of view as built by REV? I.e. any glaring system weaknesses or shortcuts being taken?
Warm regards!

The Liberty chassis is basically a center section that is grafted onto front and rear clips from the chassis builders. In the past it was Spartan who provided the clips but AC went to Freightliner around 2011-2012 due to an exclusive deal that offered some significant price savings. I had the privelege of driving the very last Liberty with the Spartan clips Spartan as well as a Freightliner version the next day, although these were both 450ISL versions. I wasn't overly impressed with the FL and that tended to continue as I drove other coaches in later years. FL has huge economies of scale and can beat Spartan's pricing but that also includes cost cutting measures whereas Spartan sweats the details better and produces a more upscale chassis.

As to the center section, the Liberty is indeed a very strong chassis. But Entegra's X bracing and other tweaks to the Spartan K3 makes it a strong chassis as well. Maybe if you do an engineering test on them both the Liberty might come out on top but it's to a level that really isn't necessary when comparing to the Cornerstone. The Liberty moves the fuel tank rearward a bit rather than right behind the front axle. This does shift some of the front axle weight from the steer axle to the rear axles. That may be a good thing if the front axle is overloaded or near the max rating but our Cornerstone has plenty of headroom left over on the front axle so in this case it's a moot point. One disadvantage to the Liberty's tank is that it cuts into the full-depth pass through bays. You gain longer short bays in the front but at the expensive of the pass-through bays. I found the AC to have less usable basement space than the Entegra Cornerstone or the Newmar London Aire.

In short, the Liberty is a good chassis but it's different than traditional chassis so it has some pros and cons and tradeoffs. I prefer my Cornerstone but that's just my preference.

I do love American Coach's dash heat and air. The Evans Tempcon and Denso systems used in most everyone's coaches utilize a common blower system for the dash air conditioning and heat. When in heat mode you split the heat between the floor (heat) vents and the upper dash (defroster) vents. It works but it can be a challenge in really cold weather. AC has a tripled system. The A/C is a standalone system. The dash heat is a totally separate system from the defroster so each can operate at full output without trading off where to aim the heat. On top of that each unit's BTU rating is much higher than anyone else. If you travel often in cold weather you won't beat the comfortable dash heat and powerful defroster of an American Coach. The system was designed for fire trucks who need to operate in cold temps and keep the windshield clean and occupants warm. Their system even beats Newell, which is saying a lot.

By the way, the Freightliner is not a K3. That is strictly a Spartan chassis name. I don't recall what FL is calling their 600HP chassis offhand.

vito.a · 03-01-2018, 09:24 AM

The 2018 Spartan K3 chassis is redesigned with the new 605hp Cummins ISX and other than Newell or Foretravel, is the best chassis available.
If the floor plan is aceptable and the price is even close, I'd always choose the Spartan chassis over the Freightliner or Liberty. On the Liberty I do not like the way they graft the front and rear suspension sections onto the center rails. Looks like a hodge podge with very little engineering consideration.

If you are only keeping the coach for 1-2 years, then it really doesn't matter as much. But, if you are purchasing for the long haul, then the Spartan chassis is superior and the support is second to none.

BattleWagon · 03-01-2018, 12:30 PM

Cruzer, Wonderful input. I was initially leaning toward the Cornerstone because of ride comfort and quietness and the Spartan reputation. However, Ive found myself downgrading the Spartan because of front end lubrication issues and radiator problems. As an engineer, I just don’t see how these things go on for years. These are issues that should be (in an ideal world) nipped in the bud not produced/ serviced poorly through production years. It does seem they have finally identified fixes and hopefully solved the problem in production. My concern is they’ve been resting on their reputation and letting serious quality issues slide. I’m very aware that you’ll always have issues come up. My concern is the length of time it has taken Spartan to put these two issues to rest. Do you see their response differently? I appreciate your experience with heavy chassis and I don’t pretend to think my opinion is fully informed. These are merely two yellow flashing light issues that require greater understanding from my perspective. I’m unaware of FL issues and responses so I know they could be worse. Searching those out now. Many thanks!