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Old 07-30-2019, 02:09 PM   #1
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Addressing Galley Sink vs. Galley Cabinet Issue in 2018 45B

In response to a number of owner complaints and suggestions, Entegra made a change to the galley cabinetry configuration in their 2019 and later coaches with the B and certain other floor plans. The issue with the 2018 and earlier coaches was that one of the cabinets protruded farther from the passenger side wall than the others, and that particular cabinet was positioned such that a right angle corner of it was over the larger (and more frequently used) of the two sink bowls.

The first two photos below illustrate the issue and the change Entegra made. The first photo shows the factory-installed sink in our 2018 45B and the protruding cabinet above the larger sink bowl. At first glance it may not seem like much of a problem, but the first time you lean in there and bump your head on the sharp corner of the protruding cabinet, the issue becomes abundantly clear. Amy did it several times and complained to me about it. I told her to be more careful. Then I did it a couple of times and became more sympathetic.

We obviously weren’t the only ones less than thrilled with that particular configuration, because in the 2019 and later coaches Entegra made the change you see in the second photo. Look closely and you’ll see the protruding cabinet has been moved forward, away from the sink.

One way to solve our problem would have been to trade the 2018 for a 2019 or 2020. A very workable approach until you factor in the financial impact. So I decided to consider other solutions. My first thought was to rotate the factory-installed sink 180 degrees, so that the larger, more frequently used bowl would be away from the sharp corner of the protruding cabinet. That would obviously require uninstalling the sink; i.e., disconnecting the plumbing and getting the sink “unglued” from the underside of the countertop, then reinstalling after rotating. That didn’t seem too daunting, so I proceeded along those lines.

Disconnecting the drain plumbing was easy enough, but getting the sink loose from the underside of the countertop was a bit more challenging. I won’t bore you with the details in this post, but will be happy to provide them if anyone is interested. With the sink broken loose from the countertop, I was able to rotate it 180 degrees and use the four underside retaining clips to temporarily hold it in place. That allowed me to shoot the third of the photos you see below.

Amy’s conclusion (and mine) was that rotating the sink resulted in a significant improvement. As you can see in the photo, the larger bowl was no longer underneath the sharp corner of the protruding cabinet. Then I made the mistake of asking Amy, “Do you ever use the smaller of the two bowls in the sink?” Her answer was not just “No” but “Never.”

Being the glutton for punishment I am, I asked a second question: “Would you prefer a single bowl sink instead?” She thought about it for three of four seconds and said, “Yes.”

I’ll spare you the research story, but I ultimately did find a single bowl stainless sink made by Elkay, the same company that made the factory-installed double bowl sink. The dimensions of the single bowl sink were just slightly different than those of the original double bowl sink, but all the measurements I took suggested the single bowl sink would fit without any modifications (other than drain plumbing of course). That supposition turned out to be just less than 100% accurate, but the tweaks I ended up having to make were relatively minor. If anyone cares, I can provide the details and a photo. The installation of the new sink and related plumbing was pretty straight-forward – details available upon request.

The last three photos show the end result – a photo of the new sink, a closer view of the new sink, and a view of the new under-sink drain plumbing. In that last photo, the white parts are new and the black parts are original.

We’re about to launch on a fairly long trip, so wish me luck that the new sink doesn’t fall out or otherwise malfunction!
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:34 PM   #2
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very nice mod! I hate that cabinet ... after 4 years, it finally has become second nature not to lean forward! Although, I should knock on wood. I would prefer a big sink like the one you installed as well. Just think, you never had to endure the horrible thumb eating drawer. That one got me many, many times until a fellow Entegra owner made me a wooden insert and put it under there when we were in Ruidoso. Ah ... the trials us "classic" owners have gone through for y'all
Enjoy!
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Old 07-30-2019, 03:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LWBAZ View Post
In response to a number of owner complaints and suggestions, Entegra made a change to the galley cabinetry configuration in their 2019 and later coaches with the B and certain other floor plans. The issue with the 2018 and earlier coaches was that one of the cabinets protruded farther from the passenger side wall than the others, and that particular cabinet was positioned such that a right angle corner of it was over the larger (and more frequently used) of the two sink bowls.

The first two photos below illustrate the issue and the change Entegra made. The first photo shows the factory-installed sink in our 2018 45B and the protruding cabinet above the larger sink bowl. At first glance it may not seem like much of a problem, but the first time you lean in there and bump your head on the sharp corner of the protruding cabinet, the issue becomes abundantly clear. Amy did it several times and complained to me about it. I told her to be more careful. Then I did it a couple of times and became more sympathetic.

We obviously weren’t the only ones less than thrilled with that particular configuration, because in the 2019 and later coaches Entegra made the change you see in the second photo. Look closely and you’ll see the protruding cabinet has been moved forward, away from the sink.

One way to solve our problem would have been to trade the 2018 for a 2019 or 2020. A very workable approach until you factor in the financial impact. So I decided to consider other solutions. My first thought was to rotate the factory-installed sink 180 degrees, so that the larger, more frequently used bowl would be away from the sharp corner of the protruding cabinet. That would obviously require uninstalling the sink; i.e., disconnecting the plumbing and getting the sink “unglued” from the underside of the countertop, then reinstalling after rotating. That didn’t seem too daunting, so I proceeded along those lines.

Disconnecting the drain plumbing was easy enough, but getting the sink loose from the underside of the countertop was a bit more challenging. I won’t bore you with the details in this post, but will be happy to provide them if anyone is interested. With the sink broken loose from the countertop, I was able to rotate it 180 degrees and use the four underside retaining clips to temporarily hold it in place. That allowed me to shoot the third of the photos you see below.

Amy’s conclusion (and mine) was that rotating the sink resulted in a significant improvement. As you can see in the photo, the larger bowl was no longer underneath the sharp corner of the protruding cabinet. Then I made the mistake of asking Amy, “Do you ever use the smaller of the two bowls in the sink?” Her answer was not just “No” but “Never.”

Being the glutton for punishment I am, I asked a second question: “Would you prefer a single bowl sink instead?” She thought about it for three of four seconds and said, “Yes.”

I’ll spare you the research story, but I ultimately did find a single bowl stainless sink made by Elkay, the same company that made the factory-installed double bowl sink. The dimensions of the single bowl sink were just slightly different than those of the original double bowl sink, but all the measurements I took suggested the single bowl sink would fit without any modifications (other than drain plumbing of course). That supposition turned out to be just less than 100% accurate, but the tweaks I ended up having to make were relatively minor. If anyone cares, I can provide the details and a photo. The installation of the new sink and related plumbing was pretty straight-forward – details available upon request.

The last three photos show the end result – a photo of the new sink, a closer view of the new sink, and a view of the new under-sink drain plumbing. In that last photo, the white parts are new and the black parts are original.

We’re about to launch on a fairly long trip, so wish me luck that the new sink doesn’t fall out or otherwise malfunction!
Great modification!... I've lightly bumped my head there several times and one of these days I'll whack it way too hard.. I for one would like more info on the bowl removal, was silicone used to glue and seal the sink to the countertop? I think we're good with the double bowl but spinning it 180 would be worth the effort!

John Morse
2015 44b
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Old 07-30-2019, 04:16 PM   #4
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Somehow with the narrative I can almost picture the dilemma and final solution. Well done��!
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Old 07-30-2019, 05:07 PM   #5
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We never found a problem with the cabinet over the sink. But your sink mod looks GREAT. Now the bedroom slide while in the water compartment I have hit my head to many times. Someday I will learn or maybe I will get a helmet. But we are loving the New BONNIE COACH it does NOT have the light hanging down over the table. Another place we hit our heads and the light does not block the cabinet door.
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Old 07-30-2019, 06:07 PM   #6
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Larry

Nice mod and thanks for publishing it. Very nice!!

However. it is fascinating how we all have different preferences and procedures. In our coach, Dee cooks and I clean up. We also do a reasonable amount of short term (7-10 days) of boondocking (Quartzsite), so to me, the most important issue is water usage. Because of that, I dont think that I have ever used the big sink for washing anything.... may stick a wash basin in there to get water for another task, but dish washing is ALWAYS done in the smaller sink as it uses considerably less water than trying to fill the larger sink full enough to effectively do dishes. In the small sink, you can easily have enough hot water to rinse and wash a whole meal of dishes just from the 120 VAC water heater. I wash in the small, rinse in the large, put dishes on mat above the induction cooktop to dry. Same is true for when we use the dishwasher (any time we are in an RV park and have lots of running water.) Still use the small sink for washing... big sink for rinsing (water out of the faucet or in a pan or tub to conserve water). The only thing that would waste even more water (in our opinion) would be have one big sink.... takes a ton of hot water to have it deep enough to effectively wash and disinfect dishes.... The would be our last preference.

So, I am always amazed at preferences and differences. This has to be the conundrum for coach builders.... what is good for one owner is bad for another. There is no universal preference I'm sure.... except that dumb protruding cabinet.... now that made no sense at all.... So, luckily they changed it for the 19s and our cabinet is on the end above the granite which greatly reduced the chance of banging heads on the pointed corner. Much improvement.

Now, the one thing that I personally dislike is any stainless steel sink... I would get rid of that in a second. My beef with a stainless steel sink is that it will turn hot water into cool or just warm water in a New York Minute !!!! I want wash water hot !!!!! I would trade it for a Corian or a steel porcelain sink at the first opportunity.... you might have given me an idea and courage to get rid of the stainless but replace it with porcelain combination sink. YPMV

Gary
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Old 07-30-2019, 06:55 PM   #7
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Larry, I took a slightly different approach, traded our 2017 for a 2020.
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Old 07-30-2019, 09:43 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Gary.Jones View Post
Larry

Nice mod and thanks for publishing it. Very nice!!

However. it is fascinating how we all have different preferences and procedures. In our coach, Dee cooks and I clean up. We also do a reasonable amount of short term (7-10 days) of boondocking (Quartzsite), so to me, the most important issue is water usage. Because of that, I dont think that I have ever used the big sink for washing anything.... may stick a wash basin in there to get water for another task, but dish washing is ALWAYS done in the smaller sink as it uses considerably less water than trying to fill the larger sink full enough to effectively do dishes. In the small sink, you can easily have enough hot water to rinse and wash a whole meal of dishes just from the 120 VAC water heater. I wash in the small, rinse in the large, put dishes on mat above the induction cooktop to dry. Same is true for when we use the dishwasher (any time we are in an RV park and have lots of running water.) Still use the small sink for washing... big sink for rinsing (water out of the faucet or in a pan or tub to conserve water). The only thing that would waste even more water (in our opinion) would be have one big sink.... takes a ton of hot water to have it deep enough to effectively wash and disinfect dishes.... The would be our last preference.

So, I am always amazed at preferences and differences. This has to be the conundrum for coach builders.... what is good for one owner is bad for another. There is no universal preference I'm sure.... except that dumb protruding cabinet.... now that made no sense at all.... So, luckily they changed it for the 19s and our cabinet is on the end above the granite which greatly reduced the chance of banging heads on the pointed corner. Much improvement.

Now, the one thing that I personally dislike is any stainless steel sink... I would get rid of that in a second. My beef with a stainless steel sink is that it will turn hot water into cool or just warm water in a New York Minute !!!! I want wash water hot !!!!! I would trade it for a Corian or a steel porcelain sink at the first opportunity.... you might have given me an idea and courage to get rid of the stainless but replace it with porcelain combination sink. YPMV

Gary
Gary, if I spin my sink around, I'll use a sheet of cork or maybe some engine bay sound deadener applied to the underside while it's easy to get to. This should provide insulation and sound protection as well..
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:51 AM   #9
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Larry

Nice mod and thanks for publishing it. Very nice!!

However. it is fascinating how we all have different preferences and procedures. In our coach, Dee cooks and I clean up. We also do a reasonable amount of short term (7-10 days) of boondocking (Quartzsite), so to me, the most important issue is water usage. Because of that, I dont think that I have ever used the big sink for washing anything.... may stick a wash basin in there to get water for another task, but dish washing is ALWAYS done in the smaller sink as it uses considerably less water than trying to fill the larger sink full enough to effectively do dishes. In the small sink, you can easily have enough hot water to rinse and wash a whole meal of dishes just from the 120 VAC water heater. I wash in the small, rinse in the large, put dishes on mat above the induction cooktop to dry. Same is true for when we use the dishwasher (any time we are in an RV park and have lots of running water.) Still use the small sink for washing... big sink for rinsing (water out of the faucet or in a pan or tub to conserve water). The only thing that would waste even more water (in our opinion) would be have one big sink.... takes a ton of hot water to have it deep enough to effectively wash and disinfect dishes.... The would be our last preference.

So, I am always amazed at preferences and differences. This has to be the conundrum for coach builders.... what is good for one owner is bad for another. There is no universal preference I'm sure.... except that dumb protruding cabinet.... now that made no sense at all.... So, luckily they changed it for the 19s and our cabinet is on the end above the granite which greatly reduced the chance of banging heads on the pointed corner. Much improvement.

Now, the one thing that I personally dislike is any stainless steel sink... I would get rid of that in a second. My beef with a stainless steel sink is that it will turn hot water into cool or just warm water in a New York Minute !!!! I want wash water hot !!!!! I would trade it for a Corian or a steel porcelain sink at the first opportunity.... you might have given me an idea and courage to get rid of the stainless but replace it with porcelain combination sink. YPMV
Gary, Amy & I do a fair amount of dry camping as well, averaging 30 to 40 nights per year at race tracks and other locations. Amy has a simple solution to the issue you described - a Rubbermaid plastic dishpan, readily available at Walmart and other similar retail outlets.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:54 AM   #10
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Larry, I took a slightly different approach, traded our 2017 for a 2020.
Cheater!
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:17 AM   #11
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Great modification!... I've lightly bumped my head there several times and one of these days I'll whack it way too hard.. I for one would like more info on the bowl removal, was silicone used to glue and seal the sink to the countertop? I think we're good with the double bowl but spinning it 180 would be worth the effort!

John Morse
2015 44b
John, sorry for the delayed response to your question. We were getting ready for a trip and finally finished up and hit the road yesterday afternoon.

Yes, Entegra uses silicone to glue/seal the sink to the underside of the countertop. There are also four clips - one near each corner of the sink - that help to locate the sink and hold it in place.

To remove the sink, I first removed the applicable drain plumbing, unscrewed the clips and move them out of the way, then put some boxes under the sink so it couldn't fall too far when it broke loose.

Next, I used a "snap blade knife" like the one in the photo below to cut the silicone. I found I had no hope of cutting all the way through in one pass, so I started with the blade barely extended, made a pass around the sink, extended the blade a little more, made another pass, extended the blade more again, and made another pass. Repeat as necessary until you can feel you've made it all the way through the silicone.

Once you have the sink out, you can use a single-edge razor blade scraper to remove the old silicone from the underside of the countertop and the top of the sink. Steel wool works good to get the last of the silicone off the top of the sink.

When reinstalling the sink, you'll want to use 100% silicone. Below is a photo of the brand and product I used, which is available at Home Depot, Lowe's, Ace, and elsewhere.

To hold the sink in place while the silicone set up, I used a couple of lengths of 2x6 lumber - one piece on top that was long enough to span the sink opening and six inches or so of countertop one each side, and and a second piece below about the length of the width of the sink. Drilled half-inch holes in each piece of wood and ran a 1/2" threaded rod down through the holes in the wood and the drain opening in the sink. From there, I used nuts and flat washers on the top and bottom of the threaded rod to squeeze the sink up against the countertop. Let sit for 24 hours or so and you're good to go.

Any confusion, feel free to ask.
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:24 PM   #12
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cheater!
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:08 PM   #13
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Great mod. The wife and I hate the split bowl. Can you provide a link to the sink you purchased?
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:10 PM   #14
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Larry, I took a slightly different approach, traded our 2017 for a 2020.
We're waiting for 2021
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