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Old 01-22-2017, 04:01 PM   #43
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IF all PG is the same, how did Chucks turn to sludge? Really want to know, can anyone explain. Must be some difference, corrosion protection or other additives?


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Old 01-22-2017, 05:17 PM   #44
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Some of us on this thread believe that they are NOT all the same.

Chuck found out that Century PG is a POS just as others have too. As Chuck has stated Century is not an expert on making boiler coolant fluid. Their expertise is septic solutions and that's probably where the Century fluid should be dumped.

And then you have people believing that ALL PG is the same no matter where it comes from. So food grade PG is the same as the Prestone Low-Tox PG. Really?

I don't have a dog in this controversy as my older Aqua-Hot uses the old green ethylene glycol which is highly toxic and a small amount will kill you if ingested. But there is NO chance whatsoever of having any boiler fluid infiltrate my water system in the Aqua-Hot unit that I own.

Personally, my recommendation to everyone is to use what ever you feel is right for you. After all it is YOUR coach and YOUR decision.

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Old 01-22-2017, 05:24 PM   #45
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Some of us on this thread believe that they are NOT all the same.

Chuck found out that Century PG is a POS just as others have too. As Chuck has stated Century is not an expert on making boiler coolant fluid. Their expertise is septic solutions and that's probably where the Century fluid should be dumped.

And then you have people believing that ALL PG is the same no matter where it comes from. So food grade PG is the same as the Prestone Low-Tox PG. Really?

I don't have a dog in this controversy as my older Aqua-Hot uses the old green ethylene glycol which is highly toxic and a small amount will kill you if ingested. But there is NO chance whatsoever of having any boiler fluid infiltrate my water system in the Aqua-Hot unit that I own.

Personally, my recommendation to everyone is to use what ever you feel is right for you. After all it is YOUR coach and YOUR decision.

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Well said Richard!


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Old 01-22-2017, 06:43 PM   #46
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Gene, it was explained to me by the chemical engineer from JG Labs that the Century fluid had no inhibitors and just broke down. He watched that post closely, with the number of people that posted showing sludge he thought that it was obvious that the fluid was breaking down.

Aqua Hot nor Century would go any further with lab testing after several requests. AH solution is to flush the system and replace the fluid.
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Old 01-22-2017, 07:14 PM   #47
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Thanks Chuck but I still don't understand glycol and water breaking down. Something going on they don't know or are not telling imho.


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Old 01-22-2017, 07:23 PM   #48
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Gene, it was explained to me by the chemical engineer from JG Labs that the Century fluid had no inhibitors and just broke down. He watched that post closely, with the number of people that posted showing sludge he thought that it was obvious that the fluid was breaking down.

Aqua Hot nor Century would go any further with lab testing after several requests. AH solution is to flush the system and replace the fluid.
Chuck, I know I read in one of the Aqua Hot threads, of which there are MANY, the detailed process of how to flush and refill the system with "your fluid of choice". Would you mind either detailing it out for me, or pointing me to the appropriate thread.
Thanks
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Old 01-22-2017, 07:34 PM   #49
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Thanks Chuck but I still don't understand glycol and water breaking down. Something going on they don't know or are not telling imho.


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I hear that! and got tired of beating my head against the wall for six months with the same question. A further lab analysis would have been over $5,000 from a specialty lab I believe in TX. None of the companies involved wanted to spend the money. IIRC there was over 34,000 views on that post and nobody ever did come up with a factual answer.
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Old 01-22-2017, 08:39 PM   #50
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WOW!


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Old 01-22-2017, 09:22 PM   #51
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Just to be clear: the propylene glycol component is the same. Assuming they used quality PG!! What dye is used and what water (deionized/distilled/etc.) is used for dilution and any corrosion inhibitors make the difference in the different fluids. If the fluid allows the internal parts of the AquaHot and coach heating system to corrode and degrade sludge and discoloration will result. It is not necessarily the fluid itself degrading but what is happening to the rest of the system. If hard water is used for dilution it will likely cause the PG coolant to leave deposits and start to gel because of the minerals in the water. It isn't the fault of the PG but what it is diluted with.

I agree that all the COOLANTS are not the same.....just the PG component.

Again, JMHO.
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Old 01-23-2017, 06:39 AM   #52
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During my conversations with Century Fluid, thinking it was a bad batch, Century Fluid stated they manufactured in small batches of 275 gallons. When asked about quality control.....no answer. That let the theory of a bad batch of fluid out as some of the others reporting sludge were a year different in manufacturing dates, and some were other coach manufactures.

I came away thinking that not all fluids and batches are the same. What is still puzzling is why some Century Fluid goes bad and others are fine, no sludge or sediments?
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Old 01-23-2017, 06:51 AM   #53
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Just to be clear: the propylene glycol component is the same. Assuming they used quality PG!!

I agree that all the COOLANTS are not the same.....just the PG component.

Again, JMHO.
Agreed!

It takes more than just PG to make up an acceptable Aqua-Hot Boiler Coolant that contains the proper characteristics for flow, heat transfer, anti-freeze, anti-corrosion, lubricity and safe for accidental human ingestion.

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Old 01-23-2017, 07:32 AM   #54
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Wally, no offense meant, but......propylene glycol is propylene glycol. Period. Said it before and will say it again. No matter who makes it or sells it PG is PG....and it is all the same.

If you read all the Aquahot info it is basically boiler plate language to scare one into using the exact fluid that aquahot sells or recommends.

If you look at the MSDS for the Century fluid or Camco or DowTherm or other GRAS boiler fluids you will find only propylene glycol and water as the components. Since PG is PG and basically a commodity on the open market the companies buy PG and mix with water at their desired concentration, put some dye in it for color, bottle it, slap on their label and sell it.

The MSDS is basically a federally required document so most companies are loath to lie on the MSDS for a product. So, it can be trusted somewhat.

If you test boiler fluids and RV antifreeze the only difference(for this discussion) is the concentration of PG and the color. From what I have seen in the limited samples I have tried (about a dozen different products) the RV antifreeze runs about 25 to 30 percent PG. The boiler fluids were 35 to 40 percent PG. I would prefer 50/50 from my experience.

The higher the PG concentration the lower the freezing point and the higher the boiling point. Since PG gets slushy rather than freezing rock hard the RV antifreeze gets away with protecting under most conditions even with lower concentrations. The boiler fluid needs the higher boiling point protection since the hot spots are well above boiling of pure water so a known higher PG concentration is desired.

Fundamentally, as an engineer, I would see no reason why RV antifreeze would not work as boiler fluid IF the adequate PG concentration was checked and known to be 50/50 AND the water used for mixing at the bottling facility was de-ionized or at least softened water. Since both requirements are unlikely to be met with the average jug of RV antifreeze I would not recommend it, but, since it is water and PG in an emergency it should work OK until the proper fluid is available.

The "heat transfer" issue mentioned is a bit thorny. PG has a lower specific heat compared to ethylene glycol. Both have a lower specific heat than plain water. So.... the best heat transfer is with pure water, but, we have that boiling and freezing issue to deal with. The best compromise is the 50/50 mix for propylene glycol and water with the water being pure (deionized, distilled or at least softened)

The other part of the heat transfer equation is the viscosity of the boiler fluid in question. Water has the lowest viscosity so it gives the best flow and takes the least work to make it flow. PG is much more viscous than water so pure PG is not the best for flow or heat transfer and would take more effort to pump it. Again, the best compromise is 50/50 PG/H2O.

As an aside, ethylene glycol is lower viscosity than PG and has a higher specific heat than PG. This is why EG is the coolant of choice for sealed automotive systems. PG will also work OK in cars/engines IF the cooling system is designed for the reduced heat transfer capacity AND the PG has the correct corrosion inhibitors.

So....going full circle, the AquaHot info quoted does have a tiny kernal of truth to it and if you are arguing the point as a lawyer you might want to require a specific brand of coolant. However, facts are facts and PG is PG so any coolant meeting YOUR requirements for toxicity, freeze/boil protection and corrosion protection will work fine in a boiler or Aquahot.

Again, JMHO!!

BTW: propylene glycol is CLEAR just like water. If you order food grade, kosher PG from Amazon as mentioned earlier it will be no color....perfectly clear but much "thicker" or "more syrupy" than water. Mix it 40/60 and put a drop of yellow food coloring in it and you have Century boiler fluid. You can compute the profit level from doing this yourself!! Which is why Century and Camco sell "boiler fluid" instead of calling it RV antifreeze!

REMEMBER: the LoTox is not usually purchased as 50/50 premixed. The LoTox I have bought at O'Reilly's auto is always straight coolant to be mixed 50/50 so you only need to buy half as much and an equal amount of distilled water an mix it yourself.
Al, I see that my words sounded like I was directing my comments to your post. In fact, I should have said that PG based products are not all the same. I was really directing my words some of the comments about the use of Auto antifreeze. I had not kept up with the earlier posts about sludge, etc. I am still in learning mode, but until I understand better, I will be using the Aqua Hot recommended products.
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:31 AM   #55
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I will be using the Aqua Hot recommended products.
I would as well while under warranty. As long as the Century Fluid does not fail, there is no reason to change. Changing fluids would void the warranty and there is no reason to go there.
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:54 AM   #56
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Chuck, I know I read in one of the Aqua Hot threads, of which there are MANY, the detailed process of how to flush and refill the system with "your fluid of choice". Would you mind either detailing it out for me, or pointing me to the appropriate thread.
Thanks
Page 116 of the owners manual. In addition on an Entegra you have to power the boost pump located behind a carpeted panel in the basement compartment P/S forward of the rear wheel. This can be done with a jump wire from the 12v plug in the next compartment from the basement freezer plug, or a 12v transformer of any type. The floor holds about 4 gallons of boiler fluid. http://www.aquahot.com/aquahot.com/m...nual_REV_E.pdf
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