Blackwater Nightmare

[AbuelaLoca2]

Thanks everyone for sharing some great ideas! Now we know why the cabinets under the sinks sometimes smell bad, AND why the black water tank seems to fill up faster than we flush! LOL When boondocking, we will wash our hands and brush our teeth in the kitchen! Dang...did not know they drained into the black...good to know!

[brobox]

Originally Posted by AbuelaLoca2

Entegra tech said it WAS designed to overflow out the ventless traps under the vanity, and up the sink drains. It spewed into the cabinets from the vents, even on the walls under there, and it overflowed the sinks onto the floor and under the slide. The water in the cabinets probably drained under the false floor, he said. Sure enough, we pulled drawers in the bathroom and bedroom, and there was the evidence. We still need to figure out the false floor of the cabinets. It's a darn tight fit to get the screws out and lift them. I can see linoleum lifted off the wood under there. All the pipes are in the way. Those ventless traps stink, btw.

The factory installed vent traps are worthless. It is well worth the $25. to upgrade. Here is a post of how to upgrade, the newer valves fit without any cutting. http://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/had-...ay-220790.html

As Dave mentioned a simple Y shut off valve may have prevented the accident. I installed one as soon as I brought the coach home. Makes back flushing a lot easier. This is on a Classic, I don't know what year you have or if this photo will help.

[wa8yxm]

There are many "RV Experts" out there.... Some are actually experts and know what they are talking about.... I listen, I filter, sometimes I discard.

Well one of the Experts is, as I recall, named Fred.. ONe thing he said that I fully agree with, in fact I feel this should be mandatory is this.

DO NOT LEAVE THE HOSE CONNECTED TO THE BLACK TANK FLUSH.

Connect it when needed, disconnect when done,, a Quick Disconnect works.

I have done it this way since day one... IN fact I will give you a short description

Note that on Day one I did not know what was already in place, I only knew that when I disconnected the flush hose there was back flow (From the vacuum breaker to the inlet as it turns out) I put a short (like 6" or so) hose with a disconnect on that inlet, hose is there today. (12 years later).

Normally (SOme places I dont' need this) a Pressure Regulator (Watts or Zurin 3/4" (Turns out to be cheaper than the smaller sizes) with garden hose adapters feeds my Fresh "Potable Water" hose.
This feeds a "Y" with cut off valves
One side feeds my water filter which is actually INSIDE the bay out of the sun.
This in turn feeds the house inlet (CITY WATER inlet)

The other side feeds a short (6 ' or there about. it was left over from another job) hose, also rated potable but .. Well see "Left over" and on the outlet end are both a SPRING CHECK valve and a vacuum breaker (Belt and suspenders) on the end of that is the other half of the Quick Disconnect.

When I flush, I connect

When I wash the RV, that's where the hose connects
When I need to fill a bucket, That is the hose I use (less I want hot water)
And so on

But the hose is never left connected to the tanks, only to a hand sprayer.

Works great.

Oh, the Expert: RV 101 By Fred

[nothermark]

In general a valve of any kind between a drain and the toilet or sink is a problem. No one installs them except sometimes on boats. Translate that to if you pressurize the black tank with a rinsing system there is nothing to block water flowing up the pipes to any way it can vent to relieve the pressure. Things like under counter vent valves are designed to work on very low pressures common in vent lines not high pressure from an over flowing tank due to a pressure connection. It all comes down to not pressurizing a system that is designed to run at or below atmospheric pressure. The simplest and most failure resistant way to do that is to not make a connection that allows it to happen. Take the hose off when not actively in use. Anything else invites a problem when some valve fails for a list of reasons.

[Ourrvtrip]

It's not a perfect setup yet but attached shows how I installed a valve with short hose to black water tank flush that remains attached at all times. I will make some adjustments to move from sewer dump hose area but the Y valve with shut offs works well. Tommy

[select55]

I seriously Doubt entegra hooked up the sink as suggested by OB for extra water in the black tank. Its simply the economics involved of sink location to black tank verses grey tank. Albeit a wrong system in my opinion

I still fail to understand why or how the black flush hose got turned on by a maintenance person ??makes no sense. what would be the purpose for them to come along and turn on a tap that has a hose hooked to someones motorhome ? Why would one have the main water and the flush hose hooked to the same shut off tap?

I leave my flush hose connected 24/7 but I own my RV resort lot and I also have a double Y shut off connection separate from the house water

I do shut off my water if Iam gone for the day

[Old Crows]

The problem is not the black tank or it's design.

The problem is you hooked a 'flush' system up to what is essentially a 'nearly' closed system that is not designed, or intended, to be 'flushed.' Not only have you crapped up your RV, very likely you have crapped up the potable water system IN your RV. Not to mention very likely polluting and contaminating the camp ground's potable water supply. Back flow of sewage & non-potable water into the potable system endangers everyone.....

Never...EVER... connect a potable water supply to a septic system! Unless you have take very special care and installed and regularly inspected/tested equipment to prevent back flow into the potable water system.

Which also points out the stupidity of hooking up a potable water supply at the campsite to one of those 'flush kits' installed in the waste water system.

You are very lucky that the campground doesn't send you a bill for cleaning up a potentially crapped up potable system....... maybe they should.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by select55

why would a so called maintenance guy be anywhere near your black water spray hose tap? or your main water tap for that matter?
on my Rv lot system I have two taps;; one for main water and one for Black water rinse hose and a second shut off valve on the rinse hose connector
I would be looking at the front office for some compensation on something this stupid.

I wondered how long it would take before someone suggested the park is responsible for the problem. Luckily I read the entire thread before I posted the same thing. Why would any worker turn on a tap that has a hose connected that does not belong to the park?

If it were me I would be in the managers office with my finger on the speed dial to my lawyer.

[AbuelaLoca2]

We don't understand why the man messed with our spigot and y-connector either. There was mention of a water outage that morning, and he went around to test spigots. But why didn't he just disconnect hoses and leave us a note to that effect...have no idea. Crazy shitiation here!

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by Old Crows

The problem is not the black tank or it's design.

The problem is you hooked a 'flush' system up to what is essentially a 'nearly' closed system that is not designed, or intended, to be 'flushed.' Not only have you crapped up your RV, very likely you have crapped up the potable water system IN your RV. Not to mention very likely polluting and contaminating the camp ground's potable water supply. Back flow of sewage & non-potable water into the potable system endangers everyone.....

Never...EVER... connect a potable water supply to a septic system! Unless you have take very special care and installed and regularly inspected/tested equipment to prevent back flow into the potable water system.

Which also points out the stupidity of hooking up a potable water supply at the campsite to one of those 'flush kits' installed in the waste water system.

You are very lucky that the campground doesn't send you a bill for cleaning up a potentially crapped up potable system....... maybe they should.

Have been to a few parks (not all of them) and have yet to find a park that has a dual water system for potable and flush water.

[HarleyOutlaw]

Originally Posted by AbuelaLoca2

We don't understand why the man messed with our spigot and y-connector either. There was mention of a water outage that morning, and he went around to test spigots. But why didn't he just disconnect hoses and leave us a note to that effect...have no idea. Crazy shitiation here!

If in fact he did turn on your water that you had shut off........I would most certainly be in the office raising kane. They have insurance and now is a perfect time for them to use it. Stanley Steamer or some other cleaning company needs to come out and sanitize your coach on the CGs dime. JMHO

Best of luck with it

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by AbuelaLoca2

Thanks everyone for sharing some great ideas! Now we know why the cabinets under the sinks sometimes smell bad, AND why the black water tank seems to fill up faster than we flush! LOL When boondocking, we will wash our hands and brush our teeth in the kitchen! Dang...did not know they drained into the black...good to know!

I read somewhere the bathroom sink is routed to the black tank to add water so the flushing is better. This must be a hold over to the drop toilets as not a lot of water is used. With our macerator toilets we seem to have a lot of water added to the tank.

[Dutch Star David]

If this happened in your house (S & B)-for example water hose to washer broke, your home owner's insurance would cover. Not sure about RV insurance but maybe worth a call.

[jestal]

Much sympathy to the OP for their issues. But, thanks for answering the question I always wanted to ask....what if I closed the black drain valve and forgot to turn off the black tank flush?

Hard to understand the jump in logic as to how this was Entegra's fault somehow.....

When this happens to me I always assumed I would immediately call one of the emergency cleanup services like ServePro to help with the task. They have the tools and know how to do it quickly and efficiently.

Select.....Stop by any Entegra, ask the owner to open the black tank drain. When the tank is empty then turn on the faucet in the sink at the midship half bath. By watching the clear water start coming coming out the empty black drain you can figure out for yourself that the drain goes to the black tank without questioning an Entegra owner's post. This has been mentioned many times before. That is why it was done. You missed the chance several times in the past to make your usual negative comments about Entegra. Wake up.

Originally Posted by select55

I seriously Doubt entegra hooked up the sink as suggested by OB for extra water in the black tank. Its simply the economics involved of sink location to black tank verses grey tank. Albeit a wrong system in my opinion

My solution to this issue was to attach a 4 foot hose pigtail to the black tank flush with a ball valve on the open end. Easy to hook to another Y fitting supply or to the extra hose laying around. If you have a spray nozzle on the extra hose you can most often just screw the pigtail onto the threads on the business end of a pistol grip spray nozzle. By making the connection away from the wet bay it stays completely dry from spillage during the whole procedure and the ball valve prevents any backflow from leaving the pigtail when it is tucked into the wet bay.