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Old 01-23-2017, 08:10 PM   #1
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Blackwater Nightmare

We're feeling stupid and angry for feeling that way after what happened today. We left camp for the morning and got a call early in the afternoon from a neighboring camper that water was coming out of our rig from under the vanity slide. She said she turned the water off at the spigot. We did not have it turned on, so we were confused. We arrived a short time later to a stinky mess. We'd left the hose connected to the black water flush, and a worker at the camp turned the spigot on while working on the system, and he left it on. We called Entegra to find out why in the world the black water tank would overflow inside our rig, up the vanity drains and the ventless traps under the sinks. What a freaking mess! Thank goodness the ground here is soft and we weren't level. At least the water drained to the side and back instead of flooding out the whole rig. We learned a big lesson about leaving hoses connected, but we sure can't figure out why Entegra would design the plumbing so that the black water would overflow into the rig. So now we have yanked the drawers and are trying to lift the false floors under them to dry the darn thing. Oh, and we are also thankful we'd just flushed the system the night before, so it wasn't as black as it could have been... CRAP! This is a lot of freaking work for us older folks who are supposedly enjoying retirement...sigh.
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Old 01-23-2017, 08:26 PM   #2
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Courage!

Thanks for posting about this!! Most people would be too shamed to do so, it takes a very kind personality to tell others about a mistake you have made. Hopefully it will convince others to not leave hoses attached that could cause damage.
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Old 01-23-2017, 08:34 PM   #3
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I won't lie - I've come close a time or two; distracted, forgetful. Now I either set a timer or hawk the gauge.
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Old 01-23-2017, 08:35 PM   #4
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Sorry for your troubles, but I don't think the result would have been different in any other brand of coach.
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Old 01-23-2017, 08:48 PM   #5
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A person here said he'd overflowed his blackwater once, by forgetting to turn the flush hose off. His overflowed up through the vent pipe and onto the roof. Now that would have been a better scenario for us. We'd just flushed last night, because we knew we were going to have a full day today. Well, it was full all right.
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Old 01-23-2017, 08:51 PM   #6
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I did not see it in your post, but did it overflow out of the macerator toilet?
What happened was the tank got pressurized by the hose connection, so the water would flow out of the path of least resistance.

If you don't have a macerator toilet, the toilet is sealed by the flush valve, so the black tank would have overflowed out of the vent on the roof.

But this kind of toilet just has a "P" trap, and it is much lower than the roof vent.

Understandable that your mad...but chalk this up to a Lesson Learned.
I always turn off the water at the hose bib as a added precaution...and never leave the flushing hose conected.

Dan
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Old 01-23-2017, 08:56 PM   #7
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And, where would you expect the overflow to go (unless maybe an overflow tank; no one has that).

By the way, I have had it happen (so I am sympathetic), not for the same reason...but there are laws involved here.

How would you, as Entegra, explain, in court, that the toxic spill had occurred because you designed the black tank to overflow onto the ground. The spill, legally, requires environmental clean up. If you do it with malice of forethought you open yourself to fines and potential criminal prosecution. I know, you're going to say, this guy is just an ---hole and doesn't understand, but as it occurs this way, it was a mistake. It requires a cleanup, both of your coach and the park ground. If it had been your fault, the park could require you to pay for the "environmental cleanup". As it was the park's mistake, they are probably going to keep their mouth shut, because they aren't going to turn themselves in, and they also don't want to clean up your mess (although you could make a case for their liability; don't know what the sign in small print is at the park you're staying at).

You probably don't want to hear it, but chalk it up as a dumb mistake by someone, clean up the mess, and move on like I did with lesson learned. But it is not an Entegra poor design. As MRUSA says, no coach manufacturer that I know of has this feature; not sure they could, except at great expense (like an overflow tank). JMHO

Just a thought, you could insert a valve going in that would allow the hose to remain connected and on and you close the valve when not in use. And maybe that is the lesson for all of us, when we are long term parked.

And BTW, the floors are sealed, so you shouldn't have to pull up flooring. Dry as best you can, with the toughest area being underneath the vanity slide and that rear compartment (if you are a single bath). Again, don't ask me how I know!!!
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:14 PM   #8
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Entegra tech said it WAS designed to overflow out the ventless traps under the vanity, and up the sink drains. It spewed into the cabinets from the vents, even on the walls under there, and it overflowed the sinks onto the floor and under the slide. The water in the cabinets probably drained under the false floor, he said. Sure enough, we pulled drawers in the bathroom and bedroom, and there was the evidence. We still need to figure out the false floor of the cabinets. It's a darn tight fit to get the screws out and lift them. I can see linoleum lifted off the wood under there. All the pipes are in the way. Those ventless traps stink, btw.
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:16 PM   #9
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We have been cleaning... And we haven't asked for a darn think except for the use of a shop vac and some small fans. Feeling snarked!
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:23 PM   #10
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As I said...sympathetic as I have been there. Fortunately, I caught mine before it went down inside the cabinets. The one thing I wished was the case, and I think they have made this change on some models; drain all sinks into the grey tank. But it still doesn't resolve the overflow mistake. I think I will install the valve inside my wet bay on the rinse intake. At least that way a dumb maintenance person can't do what yours did, as I do leave my rinse hooked up for extended stays as a convenience. I currently have a brass "L" connection into the sprayer. won't take much to put in a brass valve.
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Old 01-23-2017, 09:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSL417 View Post
As I said...sympathetic as I have been there. Fortunately, I caught mine before it went down inside the cabinets. The one thing I wished was the case, and I think they have made this change on some models; drain all sinks into the grey tank. But it still doesn't resolve the overflow mistake. I think I will install the valve inside my wet bay on the rinse intake. At least that way a dumb maintenance person can't do what yours did, as I do leave my rinse hooked up for extended stays as a convenience. I currently have a brass "L" connection into the sprayer. won't take much to put in a brass valve.
why would a so called maintenance guy be anywhere near your black water spray hose tap? or your main water tap for that matter?
on my Rv lot system I have two taps;; one for main water and one for Black water rinse hose and a second shut off valve on the rinse hose connector
I would be looking at the front office for some compensation on something this stupid.
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:40 PM   #12
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why would a so called maintenance guy be anywhere near your black water spray hose tap? or your main water tap for that matter?
on my Rv lot system I have two taps;; one for main water and one for Black water rinse hose and a second shut off valve on the rinse hose connector
I would be looking at the front office for some compensation on something this stupid.
I agree totally; you can bet they would be at your door if it were your fault. But. it does point to putting in a failsafe as I mentioned
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:10 PM   #13
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Bathroom sink drains into BLACK tank...therefore when black tank was overfilled it came up thru sink drain line, out thru Air admittance valve, filled bathroom sink and then overflowed.

With water flowing into flush system it had no other place to go........(if sink wasn't connected to tank it would have pressurized black tank and then pushed up vent line until it flowed out over roof IF toilet bowl ball/blade valve---seal held tight)

Reason for bathroom sink draining to black tank........
To put more water into black tank so it has a higher liquid to poop ratio and ease of plumbing installation

NEVER leave any hose connected to city water OR black tank flush system
Fill and USE fresh water tank and pump ALL the time.

Had a 50 cent fitting blow while connected to city water at night while sleeping. Water ran for hours. Flooded living room/kitchen of our 5th wheel and ran out under slideouts flooding our site and two others.................LOTS of water
$6000 PLUS in damages/costs

Haven't used city water connection since repairs....2008
Fill and use fresh water tank only even when at FHU site.
If leak occurs......limited amount of water can be pumped, pump is noticeable when running and real easy to turn off when we step out
VS city water supply and having to walk over to spigot to valve out etc.

Biggest issue...
Wood rot and mold
Good luck drying out.
Make sure you blow air .....fans really help
And check EVERYWHERE......hidden water/hidden damage

And campground staff/management should be notified and INVOLVED
BUT most likely will not admit any fault
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:49 PM   #14
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We have seen that movie. I wanted to flush the black tanks good, dumped the tank and closed the valve with the flush running. But I forgot, you know how it is. We were making this marvelous dinner when we saw water on the floor coming from the central bath. The sink was over flowing, what a mess. Fortunately it was semi clean water. It was the second time I did such a stunt on two different coaches. Know wonder the DW doesn't trust me. Good to have some Mr. Clean and a mop handy. Good luck, you're not alone. More adventures in RVing.
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