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Old 06-28-2019, 10:54 AM   #1
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Bypassing transfer switch

Yesterday, while I was installing my third transfer switch, I was thinking that in an emergency you could just run heavy gauge 50 amp wiring from the outside electrical input side to the output side thus bypassing the switch for that side. You would not be able to use generator power but all else would be normal?

Each time my switch has gone out it just fails to engage giving me the unplugged reading of Off DC. I can still charge my batteries with the generator but if you are at a campground they may not allow to run the generator. Bypassing would just take a few minutes and would allow normal plugged in functions. Anyone see a problem with this??
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:46 AM   #2
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Ron, it has been done many times. Just a matter of moving the wires over from the shore power side to the generator side of the transfer switch.
Any idea why so many transfer switches have been going bad? I think you mentioned before you did have and EMS system.
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:57 AM   #3
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Ron, what you’re thinking about is do-able, but before going down that path I’d attempt to determine why you’ve experienced so many failures of your transfer switches. A couple of thoughts:

If you haven’t already, consider installing a portable or hard-wired Electrical Management System before the transfer switch. These products are available from Progressive Industries (my personal favorite) or Southwire/Surge Guard:

https://www.progressiveindustries.net/

https://rvpower.southwire.com/produc...ge-protection/

With regard to the transfer switch itself, if you’re replacing like for like on a 2014 coach, you should probably consider upgrading to one of the more robust transfer switches now available such as the Surge Guard 40350-RVC or 40450-RVC.

https://rvpower.southwire.com/produc...ansfer-switch/

https://rvpower.southwire.com/produc...h-model-40450/

I suspect you’ve already checked all the wiring connections to be sure everything is clean and tight, but it might be worth checking again to see if you can spot anything that might be causing your transfer switch failures. Transfer switches don’t last forever, but your failure rate is definitely higher than normal.
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Old 06-28-2019, 12:01 PM   #4
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Sounds like you are not unloading the system when switching. Been there did that too many times.

Bypassing the transfer switch should be no problem. You may be able to wire nut them together inside the box as a temporary measure.
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Old 06-28-2019, 12:31 PM   #5
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Ron

To expand. You might (or might not) be doing what is called "Hot switching" which is not a good thing to be doing any time you are dealing with relays. Hot switching is to lets say plug into the RV pole with a lot of heavy load items on line.... most of our coaches will not let all three AC units be "on" and "start" at exactly the same time, but some coaches do. Or maybe for some reason another very heavy load item -- induction cooktop or even the AquaHot AC heater element is on when you plug in. If you do that, you would be really having a heavy load on the transfer switch when it kicks in. That heavy load will cause arcing across the relay contacts and can result in them welding themselves in one position, or alternately, building up enough residue from the arcs to not pass the voltage/current. There are other problems too.

Or alternately, you might be doing the same thing when you go from genny to shore power or the reverse. The issue is to not have very heavy electrical loads "on" when the power relay switched power from the genny to the power pole, or the reverse. Ideally, they say to always turn all of the heavy loads off before you switch power sources so there is only a small load on the relays contacts when they change positions.

You probably know that already. Frankly, I don't do that as much as I should, but I have gotten lazy in that Firefly and the VegaTouch now is programmed so the AC units turn themselves on after an appropriate delay and even then, come on line in a series rather than all at the same time.

Another thing is as Larry suggested above, if you don't have one already (you don't mention) you really need a surge suppressor installed between the commercial power pole and the transfer switch, or even better, between the genny OR the power pole and the coach. One, the EMS keeps surges out of your coach, and two, the EMS will not apply power to the coach until it is sure that there are no problems electrically. Also, there is a delay before the EMS applies voltage / power to your coach.

If you know all this already, then excuse me from bringing it up, but maybe for someone else, it will help. The EMS units Larry suggests are the top of the line. I personally have used Progressive HW-50C units on my three coaches and have managed to never have problems.... fingers are crossed.

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Old 06-28-2019, 12:48 PM   #6
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After 2nd transfer switch Failed...I did away with them and wired up a 'manual' transfer



125A subpanel

TWO double pole 50A circuit breakers mechanically interlocked

3 junction boxes
#6 wire...Red/Black/White/Green



AC Shore to junction box then to subpanel wired to one set of 50A CBs
Gen to junction box then to subpanel wired to other set of 50A CBas
Output wires from subpanel to junction box then to main panel wiring


AC Shore..flip CB ON
Gen Power...flip CB ON
Mechanical Interlock Bar only allows on set of 50A CBs to be closed at a time


No more failing relays/contacts etc
Only moving parts are the two sets of 50A CBs....available at most any hardware store should the need arise
DONE........
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Old 06-28-2019, 01:31 PM   #7
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No hot switching or bad wiring just had transfer switches go out. Not uncommon considering the reviews on the 41260 transfer switches. Some have had as many as four go out rather quickly. I am planning on the third being my last but want to be prepared for the future if not.
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Old 06-28-2019, 03:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlin11 View Post
No hot switching or bad wiring just had transfer switches go out. Not uncommon considering the reviews on the 41260 transfer switches. Some have had as many as four go out rather quickly. I am planning on the third being my last but want to be prepared for the future if not.
Bingo!

Ron, you're right that the 41260 has proven itself to be a not-so-great transfer switch and not just on Entegra motorhomes. A number of my Tiffin friends have had similar failures with that particular transfer switch.

If you have to replace another one, go with one of the two linked in my earlier post above. You'll be glad you did.
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Old 06-28-2019, 04:37 PM   #9
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will piggy back the load shed prior to switching sources of power
if we have genny running and powering up the bus, and hook up to shore power, I always shut down the a/cs and any other high load device, then kill genny and then flip on shore power. then the system times out for 3 minutes and re-engages and powers up the bus.


when we leave or kill shore power, its the same routine
shed the loads, kill shore breaker, power up genny, let it do its 2 minute thing then power hits the power management and waits 3 minutes, then i turn the a/c back on one at a time and we are off to the races.


after my 2nd transfer switch death its become standard
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Old 06-28-2019, 05:59 PM   #10
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I have a progressive surge protector and always shed loads before turning on the power or turning it off. I rarely use the generator other than to exercise it. If my transfer switch goes out again I will purchase the 40350RVCI to replace it (I hope this does not happen). Right now I will buy the additional cables to bypass the switch if it goes out again so I can at least keep everything charged and have normal usage. Thanks to all that responded.
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Old 06-29-2019, 07:30 AM   #11
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The 41260 switch was used back in 2014. It's not that great of a switch and has plenty of known failures. It was supposed to come on our 2016 but I got them to put in a 40350-RVC instead, which is now the switch currently used by Entegra. The 41260 has 45 amp contactors and pretty much useless surge protection. The 40350-RVC has 65 amp contactors that are shock mounted and has a full suite of surge protection as well as low/high voltage protection, basically equal to the Progressive or Surge Guard add-on units. It has an excellent reliability record.

As to bypassing the switch - I carry a set of large wire nuts should I ever need to do that. In fact, when your coach is built they use wire nuts to bypass the transfer switch until the very end. The transfer switch isn't connected until after all of the final electrical system tests are completed. Chances are I'll never need them but I like to have things on hand so that I can keep operating should a failure occur while traveling.

As to shutting down all of the breakers - I don't do that any more. When we drive in hot weather the generator runs to power he air conditioners. When I get to the campsite I shut it off and plug in the coach. The transfer switch has a few seconds delay until it kicks in and the air conditioners also have a built-in delay so there is no sudden surge of power across the contacts in the switch. As part of my annual maintenance I check the contacts and also the
Allen head lug connectors. I haven't seen any pitting on the contacts yet. I did find the connections needed to be tightened a bit after the first year but every other year they seem to be tight.
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Old 06-29-2019, 07:47 AM   #12
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I removed my transfer switch and just manually plug in the generator when I need it. Keep it simple!
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Old 06-29-2019, 08:51 AM   #13
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From my aviation experience shifting power, I am not a big fan of having a large electrical load on (ACs) when killing power (ie turning off the generator or power pole). This causes unnecessary arcing on the transfer contacts and will eventual build up enough carbon that will cause a bad connection. Yes you can do it but eventually you will pay the price for it.

Just my 2 cents

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Old 06-29-2019, 01:42 PM   #14
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Just one thing that has not been mentioned concerning removing the transfer switch... you will no longer have auto gen start if connected to shore during a power outage.
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