Community Forums

DeeGee · 07-02-2018, 06:41 PM

Last weekend I started the coach, to move it for some work. I got a check engine light. SPN 3031 FMI 9. The web says that the DEF temperature sensor is not reporting on the CAN bus. Just great. This is a de-rate item - I can drive it to a shop, but not much farther. There is one shop around me. The earliest they can take me is near the end of July. FML. This new coach has been nothing but problems.

Matt D · 07-02-2018, 07:23 PM

Well that just stinks.

Here is what I’d do if it were mine. I’d locate the wiring connections concerning your DEF tank and carefully examine each one. Next, I’d unlock and disconnect each connector and apply a dab of dielectric grease to each pin.

When examining the connectors, I’d be mindful of a connector that seemed easy to pull apart. It could be that you’re seeing the results of a loose connection.

The FMI 9 code talks about Abnormal Update Rate, which could simply be a loose connection.

Tomorrow give Spartan a call and see if their engineering troops can aim you at a likely starting point.

It might also be useful to cross check the error code with Cummins to ensure they are looking at the same thing.

When we had a MIL that indicated NOX High, it turned out the ECM required a reflash. While I have no basis to state that is your problem, these beasts have electrical systems that have tentacles reaching far and wide.

I hope this helps,

-Matt

Caliber · 07-02-2018, 07:33 PM

Did it come back on after a re-start?
There are many modules on the new engine systems, if you rush starting them by not waiting for the wait to start light goes out, a module might not be fully booted up and reporting. This can cause the abnormal update rate codes.

Gary.Jones · 07-03-2018, 06:16 AM

If the DEF connector communicates along the CANBUS, I have been amazed, in my brief history with that bus (programming the VALOR TPMS system), I was surprised how easy it was to remove connectors from that terminator block. Several (of the three) came out without me trying to get them out.... I would follow Matt's suggestion and make sure that the wires in whatever bundle there is for that sensor are nicely and firmly attached to the block.

Gary

DeeGee · 07-03-2018, 10:37 AM

I always wait until the light goes out before starting. I have started it about 3-4 times since then, and the light is still there. I know that some codes will reset after 5 or 6 clean starts, so I'll take advantage of the holiday and see if it is clear, or if there are any identifiable loose connections. I did talk to Spartan, and they told me to take it to a shop.

brobox · 07-03-2018, 10:56 AM

Hope this helps, on the 450 there are 16 DEF sensors that have to all talk to each other before start up. Before I had the engine ECM update, I would get bogus CEL codes all the time, some being DEF. After the update from Cummins, I did not have a CEL afterwards

DeeGee · 07-23-2018, 06:36 PM

I took it in to the shop today - this was the earliest appointment available at the only nearby approved Spartan repair facility. The service guy pulled the codes; there were several, all from the same time:

SPN 03031 FMI 9 DEF tank temp inactive
SPN 1761 FMI 9 DEF tank level sensor inactive
SPN 3364 FMI 9 DEF fluid quality sensor inactive

Sure looks like a loose connection to me. At any rate, the guy then told me that they only do Cummins work, and were NOT a Spartan service center. I took the coach back home and called Spartan. After some time and a bunch of phone calls they called be back and said that, well, it was sort of a Spartan service center, but they wouldn't work on anything very low level. (This is low level?)

Spartan referred my to the Quinn CAT center in Santa Maria, about 100 miles north. I called them this afternoon, and they claim to know nothing at all about being a Spartan repair center. They state that as far as they know they have no contract with Spartan. The woman I spoke with mentioned that they were working on an RV with some Spartan chassis problems and had nowhere to go and no specs.

So, I guess I get to call Spartan once more tomorrow. This is getting more than slightly pathetic. I bought this coach last November. I have used it for a grand total of 2.5 weeks and the rest of the time it has been down. The nearest dealer is 8 hours away, and apparently there is no chassis service available. California is truly a third-world country.

LWBAZ · 07-23-2018, 06:49 PM

DeeGee, I’m coming to the conclusion that you & I could get certified as Spartan warranty service center. Let me know if you want to set up shop in Camarillo or here in the Phoenix area.

On a slightly more serious note, I’ve had occasion to talk with and/or check out a number of facilities around the country that are “authorized” Spartan service centers. More of them than not are similar to what you’ve just experienced.

Here in the Phoenix area, there are supposedly three such service centers. One of them, Massey Diesel, engages in lines of work other than RV’s, but it is a legitimate Spartan service center and has been for years. I don’t plan to go there, in that my one visit included a test drive of our Cornerstone by their RV service manager, who hit a work truck and sheared off my passenger side mirror. Nice.

The second shop is Freightliner of Arizona. As their name implies, their primary loyalties lie elsewhere, but their Tolleson facility does have a dedicated RV service manager and a dedicated team of RV technicians. I’ve done business with them for close to 15 years and four different coaches. I find them plenty good on routine service needs. Beyond that, it can get iffy.

The third shop, according to Spartan, is National Indoor RV. According to NIRVC, they do zero chassis work and farm it all out to Massey. That’s how much Spartan knows about their “authorized service centers.”

DeeGee · 07-23-2018, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LWBAZ

DeeGee, I’m coming to the conclusion that you & I could get certified as Spartan warranty service center. Let me know if you want to set up shop in Camarillo or here in the Phoenix area.

On a slightly more serious note, I’ve had occasion to talk with and/or check out a number of facilities around the country that are “authorized” Spartan service centers. More of them than not are similar to what you’ve just experienced.

Here in the Phoenix area, there are supposedly three such service centers. One of them, Massey Diesel, engages in lines of work other than RV’s, but it is a legitimate Spartan service center and has been for years. I don’t plan to go there, in that my one visit included a test drive of our Cornerstone by their RV service manager, who hit a work truck and sheared off my passenger side mirror. Nice.

The second shop is Freightliner of Arizona. As their name implies, their primary loyalties lie elsewhere, but their Tolleson facility does have a dedicated RV service manager and a dedicated team of RV technicians. I’ve done business with them for close to 15 years and four different coaches. I find them plenty good on routine service needs. Beyond that, it can get iffy.

The third shop, according to Spartan, is National Indoor RV. According to NIRVC, they do zero chassis work and farm it all out to Massey. That’s how much Spartan knows about their “authorized service centers.”

When I had my coach at NIRVC Phoenix, they declined to work on any chassis items, stating that they don't do that.

Bill Tudor · 08-01-2018, 10:10 AM

We had Check Engine light problems and after visiting 4 Cummins Dealers the real good guys in Cloverdale, VA found the problem. The DEF thermostat was stick open and heating the DEF fluid. That causes a DEF issue and the Check Engine light and eventually the Stop Engine light. A quick way to see if this problem is happening is to feel the DEF tank with your hand after driving a few hours. If you burn your hand, it is broken. It should be at ambient temperature.

brobox · 08-01-2018, 10:24 AM

I know it's a drive, but Dave, DSL417 raves about the Cummins facility in Sacramento. Is there a Cummins Coach Care in So CA? Probably not with the cost of real estate.

lowejug · 08-01-2018, 06:03 PM

Colton truck center in San Bernardino is a authorized spartan... just had my radiator replacement done there a few months ago... not only that but these guys know what there doing ... great shop... and they can do anything...
Just lock your doors when you get there.. not the safest area...

philnail · 08-01-2018, 06:12 PM

Colton truck is great. I usually work with Rich there as he has been there over 30 years

philnail · 08-01-2018, 06:39 PM

Here is there info:
Colton Truck
863 E. Valley Blvd
Colton CA 92324

909-825-4080
Ask for Rich or Steve

I had an issue with my def sending unit last year and they fixed it