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Old 09-05-2019, 03:31 PM   #1
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Check Engine Light/DEF

Previous posts discussed Spartan DEF head replacement issues. I have a 2018 Entegra Aspire. I got a check engine light and went to Houston Cummins. Codes are 4572, 3568 and 4677. These codes indicate the computer has issues with an abnormal update rate for DEF quality, temp and level. Info makes no sense to the computer. The sensors responsible for this info are one unit inside the DEF tank. As mentioned in earlier posts, these DEF heads and or sensors are on back order. Spartan refers to them as generation 5 sensors and are replacing them with generation 6. They hope to receive a number of new sensors on September 13th. Spartan is not sure why this is occurring and are doing their best to resolve the problem. As usual, Spartan cannot tell us if it is safe to drive the rig. One customer drove his rig 2000 miles with no problem and another drove 300 mile when he got a stop engine light. Hopefully there are only a few bad sensors out there and Spartan can get the proper level of inventory to take care of the problem when it occurs.
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:25 AM   #2
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If I overfill mine the check engine light comes. As I drive and lower the level it goes out. I only fill to the top strap line now.
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Old 09-08-2019, 04:19 PM   #3
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Ron

Right beside that horizontal line inscribed in the plastic DEF tank are the words "Do NOT overfill" (at least on mine). I believe they mean that horizontal line should not be exceeded at any time.

Gary
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:08 PM   #4
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OK, not a DEF issue but I had a check engine light come on, with no noticeable performance issues, so I stopped by NIRVC and they hooked up the computer and it came back with 6 pages of error codes pointing to almost every system on the coach. They didn't know where to start, so they cleared the light and now 4 days of diving later, light has not come back. Wierd.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:04 AM   #5
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Mike:

Yes, that is wierd as you should have been getting those error codes up on your dash.

Now, when my VegaTouch system crashed and the canbus acted crazy, I got thousands of "soft" error codes that did not toggle main permanent error codes. I dont think you have VegaTouch, but I am pretty sure that your error codes should come up on the dash with a engine icon without a checkmark in it illuminated. Maybe someone else has experienced what you have experienced.

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Old 09-09-2019, 07:02 PM   #6
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Check Engine Light/DEF

FWIW, I have a 2017 Newmar Dutch Star on a Spartan K2. Three weeks ago, I experienced a “DEF Head” failure and had to be towed 100 miles from Chanute, KS to Joplin, MO. Upon arriving at the Cummins service center in Joplin, they read the codes and confirmed the problem. I had already spoken with Spartan and they confirmed they were out of stock on these heads.

Just at this location, upon our arrival, there were six other vehicles - three school buses, an Entegras, and two other Newmars, broke down with the same problem. And this is a very small Cummins shop. It appears there are defective (i.e. failing) sensors in these DEF Heads.

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The clean blue disk in the picture is our new DEF head. This part serves.three functions. It monitors the DEF for quantity and it monitors for quality and it heats the DEF in the tank to keep it from freezing at low temps (below 10 degrees F).

It took Spartan about two and a half weeks to get the part, which is manufactured by Shaw Industries out of Bonita, FL.. To their credit, Spartan did overnight the part to Joplin.

While waiting, the competition (Freightliner) got wind of our situation through a back channel and I got a call out of the blue from a guy in Gaffney offering his assistance. I explained I was on a Spartan and under warranty but I asked him if they were experiencing DEF head failures. He did not flat out admit they had a problem, but he said there were “issues”.

In our case, there was zero time between a yellow light and a full derate. I had three green bars on my DEF gauge and then, a second later, I had one red bar and I’m all but shut down. Whomever decided that severe derates of this nature is a good idea is going to get somebody killed, if it hasn’t happened already. JMHO.

So we left Joplin on Saturday and started back to Texas. Today, we got two successive stop engine (red) lights that coded as problems with the EGR system. We talked to Spartan and Cummins and, eventually, the codes cleared on their own. So on the advice of the Cummin’s Tech, we went on down the road to a campground (40 miles) without any issues. Hoping to complete our trip tomorrow and then into the Cummins shop to have it all checked out.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:01 PM   #7
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I gave a question , did you have a mil light before failure or did did your fault go immediately to shut down? The reason I ask is that I recently had a yellow mil light for a dosing valve an as I understand it after several more cycles it would eventually lead to a red derate morning situation. My question really is did you get a yellow mil light before hand in which you probably should have looked for service or was this a oh sxxxx shut down. We all need to understand the warning signals.

With all that said your experience snd knowledge gained from this experience is greatly appreciated.

Herb
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:52 AM   #8
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I got a yellow light and pulled into fuel stop. Since I was at the pump, I topped off my fuel and then pulled the code. I could not find the codes on the Cummins list. They were

1761
3364
5246
5842

Since it was a yellow warning, I decided to restart to see if they would clear. That seemed to work. No yellow light. So I pulled out and as soon as I was in the street, I got a solid red Stop Engine light and the engine derated to 5 mph.

I managed to pull around a corner to a side street and called Spartan. They confirmed all the codes were def related. I told them my DEF gauge had suddenly gone from three green bars to one red bar and they said “DEF head failure”. They called Coach Net and five hours later (100 miles) we arrived at Cummins.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deaton View Post
I got a yellow light and pulled into fuel stop. Since I was at the pump, I topped off my fuel and then pulled the code. I could not find the codes on the Cummins list. They were

1761
3364
5246
5842

Since it was a yellow warning, I decided to restart to see if they would clear. That seemed to work. No yellow light. So I pulled out and as soon as I was in the street, I got a solid red Stop Engine light and the engine derated to 5 mph.

I managed to pull around a corner to a side street and called Spartan. They confirmed all the codes were def related. I told them my DEF gauge had suddenly gone from three green bars to one red bar and they said “DEF head failure”. They called Coach Net and five hours later (100 miles) we arrived at Cummins.


Just had ours repaired yesterday. Spartan received heads Thursday. Received a call from Ocala Cummins first thing yesterday morning stating they had our part and to bring the coach as soon as I could. Brought it back home late yesterday afternoon. A big thank you to Spartan and the folks at Ocala Cummins Coach Care.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:32 AM   #10
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This issue isn’t unique to Entegra, or Freightliner coaches. I have a friend with a Tiffin on Powerglide and they are battling this issue as well.

-Matt
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:40 AM   #11
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Just talked to Spartan and they will have new sensors available later this week and new heads the following week. Replacing the sensors in the old head is another way to fix the problem. With these failures happening with all chassis manufacturers I’m guessing the same supplier provides these sensors?
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Old 09-11-2019, 07:10 AM   #12
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With so many failures across so many brands, is this and "when it fails" as opposed to an "if it fails" issue? Almost sounds like a recall in the making.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:30 AM   #13
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With so many failures across so many brands, is this and "when it fails" as opposed to an "if it fails" issue? Almost sounds like a recall in the making.
If Spartan won’t do a recall on the crap radiators that they put in time and time again for years I won’t hold my breathe waiting for a Spartan recall on the bad DEF heads.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:30 PM   #14
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Aren’t the DEF heads part of the Cummings warranty? I was just in Cummings and the cleaned the DEF dosing meter and that was under warranty
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