c'mon man

[Harry B]

My previous coach (a 2005 Itasca Horizon) had all the wires inscribed by laser with 3 digit letter and number codes about every 2 feet. A cross reference chart could tell you where the wire went to, came from and the gauge of the wire. The yellow wire was signal or hot and all the white wires were ground. Now that was nice and 12 years ago. My current coach is back to color coding and no labels again 😖But on the bright side I had all the drawers out and covered places open and found no construction debris anywhere. So leaving a clean coach behind can be done. However I'll admit I was surprised.

[DSL417]

I guess I'm just a "cheerleader", but this thread seems like a lot of ado about nothing. If I can't see it (sawdust), then it doesn't affect my life style. There is one place where it is a problem, under or stuff in the slide rollers, and the factory folks fix that if it exists when you go in for PDI.

WRT wiring, I think all are using that etched wiring. It has been stated in this forum that Newmar labels their wiring, but I noticed the wiring had that same etching, so I ask the guy on their production line; he said they don't label their wiring and the etched numbers. I did notice that I had at least one wire under my dash that was labeled...unfortunately, it was a wire that had become disconnected, and I don't know where goes to; maybe it is the computer connection wire on the classic coaches for Cummins, who knows???!!!:(

[DSL417]

I guess I'm just a "cheerleader", but this thread seems like a lot of ado about nothing. If I can't see it (sawdust), then it doesn't affect my life style. There is one place where it is a problem, under or stuff in the slide rollers, and the factory folks fix that if it exists when you go in for PDI.

WRT wiring, I think all are using that etched wiring. It has been stated in this forum that Newmar labels their wiring, but I noticed the wiring had that same etching, so I ask the guy on their production line; he said they don't label their wiring and the etched numbers. I did notice that I had at least one wire under my dash that was labeled...unfortunately, it was a wire that had become disconnected, and I don't know where goes to; maybe it is the computer connection wire on the classic coaches for Cummins, who knows???!!!:(

[MRUSA14]

I don't think this issue is unimportant at all. To the contrary, it is an example of poor practices that will ultimately cause grief for some (if not many) of us. I have many wires under my dash and behind the front cap that are connected to nothing at all. Since everything works, I assume they are unneeded. But what a nightmare if troubleshooting is ever required. How will I know if my problem is caused by one of these unconnected wires?

My 2003 Beaver had every wire marked at 2 foot intervals. It came with a wiring diagram too. When I had a wiring problem, this combination allowed me to go to exactly the right wire in less than 5 minutes. If I had to do the same thing on my Entegra, it would be a long difficult trial and error job.

If Beaver could do it right, then Entegra can too. It just takes the will to do the right thing, as the cost to do it is minimal.

[MRUSA14]

I don't think this issue is unimportant at all. To the contrary, it is an example of poor practices that will ultimately cause grief for some (if not many) of us. I have many wires under my dash and behind the front cap that are connected to nothing at all. Since everything works, I assume they are unneeded. But what a nightmare if troubleshooting is ever required. How will I know if my problem is caused by one of these unconnected wires?

My 2003 Beaver had every wire marked at 2 foot intervals. It came with a wiring diagram too. When I had a wiring problem, this combination allowed me to go to exactly the right wire in less than 5 minutes. If I had to do the same thing on my Entegra, it would be a long difficult trial and error job.

If Beaver could do it right, then Entegra can too. It just takes the will to do the right thing, as the cost to do it is minimal.

[hawgguy]

I don't think that it is functionally all that bad that they left a mess on the floor underneath the dash where no one can see it, I just think there is no good excuse for it.

[Gary.Jones]

Are people not aware that they need to post their comments only once or are opinions so strong that they need to be said twice :-). :-).

Hopefully I'll say this only once...... this is the rough equivalent of the notorious stories of what used to be common behavior of American automakers in Detroit. Examples are line car assembly workers sticking their leftover lunch sacks and sandwiches in the doors of cars before the inside panels are mounted, or empty coke cans stuck somewhere in a car rather than putting them in the trash.

The kind of crap that Bob found below his drawers and junk others find under their slides is inexcusable to me. Simple sloppiness and laziness! It's not acceptable for my $350,000 motorcoach

Gary

[ragoodspeed]

I am very sorry some of you Entegra owners are finding what you are finding behind closed doors! Reminds me of a couple Monaco products I once owned as they were attempting to meet Wall Street forecasts, they were messy and look what ultimately happened to them! I can honestly say I have been thru every nook and cranny of my new Renegade coach and have found no debris at all and I mean at all and that includes the dash area that I had apart to upgrade the radio speakers. I am not sure what you should have expected since Jayco never had a stellar quality improvement reputation and lets face it Forrest River is at the bottom so things do not look like they will get any better going further. Will have to see as well what happens to Renegade now that Rev Group owns them! I like the "little guys" who appear to take more pride in their workmanship like Phoenix cruiser that made two coaches for me and they were very well made in all aspects. best of luck, Ron G.

[Boomertx]

Originally Posted by Cruzer

<snip>

Although if you want to see super-neat wiring and spotlessly clean coaches take a look at a Newell. You'll be amazed at how they are built. Then again, it takes 28 weeks to build one and costs $2 million dollars. But the average tenure of a Newell employee is 26-27 years with a few 40 year veterans and they are a union shop. Average new hires are 3 per year and that's due to retirements. With that kind of experience, attention to detail and long production schedule it's no wonder the coaches are ads they are. It's just too bad they cost too much for the average guy.

Just for giggles I spent some time on the Newell website especially the construction section. The plywood on the walls is 5/8" thick!!! No wonder the average GVWR on one of those beasts is over 63000 GVWR. Heck, they even have a Turbocharged Generator!!! Oh well, time for another lotto ticked

[trackeer]

Originally Posted by DSL417

I guess I'm just a "cheerleader", but this thread seems like a lot of ado about nothing. If I can't see it (sawdust), then it doesn't affect my life style. There is one place where it is a problem, under or stuff in the slide rollers, and the factory folks fix that if it exists when you go in for PDI.

WRT wiring, I think all are using that etched wiring. It has been stated in this forum that Newmar labels their wiring, but I noticed the wiring had that same etching, so I ask the guy on their production line; he said they don't label their wiring and the etched numbers. I did notice that I had at least one wire under my dash that was labeled...unfortunately, it was a wire that had become disconnected, and I don't know where goes to; maybe it is the computer connection wire on the classic coaches for Cummins, who knows???!!!:(

Because you can't see something doesn't make it not a problem, it's the mindset, if it's ok to leave your hardware and used material in areas unseen what else is left that's also unseen.
You encourage your employee's to do the best job, by letting employee's leave a mess tells them if you don't care why should I, this filters down to every aspect of the job, hmmmmmmmmm at 250K+ for a RV, I'd expect more.

[hawgguy]

Originally Posted by trackeer

You encourage your employee's to do the best job, by letting employee's leave a mess tells them if you don't care why should I, this filters down to every aspect of the job, hmmmmmmmmm at 250K+ for a RV, I'd expect more.

Nailed it.

[Cruzer]

Originally Posted by Boomertx

Just for giggles I spent some time on the Newell website especially the construction section. The plywood on the walls is 5/8" thick!!! No wonder the average GVWR on one of those beasts is over 63000 GVWR. Heck, they even have a Turbocharged Generator!!! Oh well, time for another lotto ticked

Entegra has the quietest coach in this market segment and part of that is due to the thick R33 floor that is built with 2x4s on edge over steel, insulated, and decked with 3/4" 7 ply plywood. But, Newell's floor is similar except it's 10" thick and filled with foam. They need to make it that thick because the flush and flat floor slides don't move out and drop down. Instead, they are flush with the floor and move out when extended. Then a new piece of floor rises up from beneath to fill the void. Everything works smoothly and quietly and the various gaps between the slide floor, main floor and filler panel are super accurate and look just like the grout joints in the rest of the floor. These guys could make the space shuttle with their quality of workmanship and engineering.

The generator sits up front in an enclosed compartment. The fiberglass cap swings up to expose a pair of metal doors in a soundproof enclosure where the generator set is located. This generator is super quiet. The reason for the noise heard on most Onan generators is because the radiator exhausts out the bottom. That leaves a big hole in the generator's enclosure and al of the noise gets out. Newell doesn't have any holes in the enclosure. Instead, all of the coolant is pumped to a remote radiator in a basement compartment mid-ship. A big squirrel gage blower exhausts the heat to the ground but the engine noise is contained up front in the enclosure. It's a great system but does contribute to part of the high price on the coach. If you spend some time at the factory seeing how they build these coaches it'll be a never ending parade of innovative ideas like that.

I hear you on the Lotto ticket.

[Finally]

Made in America! It even happens in commercial airplane retrofits. I've seen it there too

[Finally]

My rig was the same, debris everywhere.

The management should teach "clean as you go" and make it a requirement to be cleaned.