Entegra vs. Tiffin (Input Appreciated)

[Cruzer]

Originally Posted by Hayman

I only know what I have read in this post.

However IF TRUE that the Bontragers will not speak directly to this owner I find that upsetting especially if anyone watches their company video. The other RV manufacturers owner they are modeling themselves after always talks to his customers whether they are happy or disgruntled and HAS taken back/replaced coach's.

Just my thoughts !

I hear you there, Brian. However, you are comparing them to Tiffin. The issue with Tiffin is that you many times have to talk to Bob Tiffin because you get varying answers from those beneath him. Bob will always return calls and try to deal with the problem. It doesn't always work out as it should, as these owners found out when the bought a 2013 Zephyr that was a mess of issues but he does a pretty good job. Then again, this is Bob. He loves to interact with customers and he's their best sales tool. He lets the boys run the company and all they make is class A motorhomes. However, you need to approach him calmy. If you go in blasting away and all upset everyone at Tiffin tends to duck and you won't get anywhere so much depends on how the person approaches Tiffin with their issue.

The difference with Entegra is that the Bontragers manage a much larger empire of RVs as well as being involved with the RVIA and other philanthropic ventures. Therefore they have delegated this responsibility to those beneath them. They've also given them the authority to make those decisions. This means that Joyce or whoever doesn't have to go ask Derald for permission every time a questionable area comes up. They have their guidelines and Derald backs there decisions. With as many customers as Jayco has there is no way that he could take time to deal with things without failing to manage the big picture. Sort of like expecting the President of the United Sates to deal with an issue you are having with your mailman.

If I had an issue with an Entegra Coach I'm sure that the crew at Entegra would handle it to my satisfaction and that their answers wouldn't be any different than what I would get from the Bontragers.

[JoyalRV]

250 pages! Ouch!

[Hayman]

Point taken & understood Mark !!

I guess I'm comparing how we ran our business for over 40 years and sometimes we made decisions to satisfy a customer even if totally wrong. Our motto was 1 vocal dissatisfied customer outweighed many satisfied and caused us even more headaches.

The comment that this is best left to the OP & Entegra to resolve is accepted and therefor I will post nothing more on this subject.

[Clayobx]

If I were the owner/operator of a "vast Motor Coach empire" my first and overwhelming decision would be to handle this situation as quickly and fairly as possible. As a past manager of a Lowes home improvement store in FL. You can believe my companies policy was to handle issues from a $50.00 defective window to a claw hammer. It was my job! How can the comparison of the President handling an issue with a citizens mailman even be used in this business scenario?? We're talking about a $400,000,00 plus MSRP big ticket item. The brothers Bothragers manage one entity, Entegra motor homes! This is their only business and they must handle these situations hands on when an issue of this magnitude arises or their position of credibility and respect within a very small but highly visible market place may be damaged. Whether large or small, how impressions are cast on future buyers is essential to a continued business success. I've been in a similar business, you can delegate to a certain point then as the top dog or dogs in this case, you've got to step up and stop the bleeding. I'm sure there are two sides to take into consideration, just a fact in these cases. The original OP question was Tiffin vs. Entegra? We've seen Bob Tiffin step up, why because its his business! He absolutely has to practice credible and continued business planning to sell product. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Hopefully not in a court of law. Hayman is correct, these issues should never arise and better left alone very frustrating.

[Cruzer]

"Vast Motor Coach empire" = your words, not mine.

While I agree that these kind of situations make for bad press and ideally should be stopped right away, it doesn't always happen. It didn't happen with this customer's 2013 Zephyr neither when dealing with Tiffin Motorhomes. Not to say there aren't any problems in either situation but there's always more to things than we see, yet everyone jumps in with varying opinions and the topic goes off-topic and downhill pretty fast.

There are a few facts you have wrong regarding the Bontragers though. For one, the "brothers Bothragers" (sic) do not have one entity to manage. Wilbur has stepped away from active involvement in the day to day operations to be more involved in the RV industry and remains on the board as head of Jayco. Derald Bontrager is the CEO of Jayco, which includes Entegra Coach as well as StarCraft, Jayco Motorized, Jayco Towables and Open Range. So I guess the "President versus mailman" scenario could be replaced by "the CEO of Lowes won't be stepping in to deal with a disgruntled customer regarding a $50 window".

[loisjop]

In my opinion, it is unfair to set here and bash Entegra when they can't respond in kind. It's like finding someone guilty without a trial and only hearing one side of the evidence.
Like Cruzer said there are people at Entegra empowered to make the same decisions that Bob Tiffin makes, but they like Bob aren't going to give away the farm.
There are always two sides to every story.
If you're not happy you have recourse, but everyone piling on won't help your situation. Noel

[rgwilliams69]

Just a quick question on the comments of people going to the manufacturer's location for fixes, repairs, etc. I own a Tiffin (almost 1 year now) and have had no major issues yet. The business I bought it from and that does all of my service has handled all punch list items themselves with direction from Red Bay. In fact, if it ever needs to go to Red Bay, my dealer/service company will send my coach down there with one of their techs to get the work done, relieving me of having to make the trip. Note we are not full-timers.

Is this situation unusual to expect the folks who sold it to you to minimize any interactions with Red Bay (or any other manufacturer) or handle those interactions to your satisfaction? Looks like I need to pat my dealer on the back and tell him "good job!". I understand that if I call Bob for something that I'll likely get to talk to him - but I'd just rather not if I don't have to - I can let my dealer/service folks work with their team.

I just assumed this is normal but I see that most of the posts on this thread and others about issues/complaints seem to be handled by the owners themselves versus the shop that sold the rig.

Sorry a little off-topic but just wondering what others experience.

[DoggieDaddy]

And then there are "Lemon Laws". Sounds like nosnow222 may have a case depending on the state the coach was bought in.

[PushedAround]

Sounds like you have a great dealer. I think that there are some larger problems where the coach (any brand) needs to go back to the manufacturer for repairs, because they are beyond the ability of the dealer. It does seem that there are those who go running back to the manufacturer with the smallest of issues, maybe because their dealer prefers it that way, or because they bought from the cheapest dealer and it is too far to keep going back.

[Saltydog44]

Originally Posted by RKNOLA

When we went to the Tampa RV show we looked at Tiffin and we looked at Entegra. Both really beautiful coaches.
But WOW!! I think how one RV owner treats another RV owner means a lot too. It is more than how the company treats you. When you buy an RV you become part of that brand's family. Would you all treat your family so mean?
Please reel it in a little, have some compassion and be nice! None of you were charged with being judge and jury.
Now please tell me again why I should consider an Entegra?

No matter the brand, you have to look at the preponderance of the opinions. There are many, many happy owners of Entegras and also of Tiffins. Anyone can get the short straw and I know of both in both camps. My unscientific opinion is that there are a great many more happy owners of both than unhappy.

We had a Tiffin and thought it was great. We're even happier with our Entegra, but Tiffin has upped their game. If I were in the market, I would look at both (and Newmar for that matter) without hesitation and choose the floorplan and other stuff to see which I like best.

[brobox]

Originally Posted by rgwilliams69

Just a quick question on the comments of people going to the manufacturer's location for fixes, repairs, etc. I own a Tiffin (almost 1 year now) and have had no major issues yet. The business I bought it from and that does all of my service has handled all punch list items themselves with direction from Red Bay. In fact, if it ever needs to go to Red Bay, my dealer/service company will send my coach down there with one of their techs to get the work done, relieving me of having to make the trip. Note we are not full-timers.

Is this situation unusual to expect the folks who sold it to you to minimize any interactions with Red Bay (or any other manufacturer) or handle those interactions to your satisfaction? Looks like I need to pat my dealer on the back and tell him "good job!". I understand that if I call Bob for something that I'll likely get to talk to him - but I'd just rather not if I don't have to - I can let my dealer/service folks work with their team.

I just assumed this is normal but I see that most of the posts on this thread and others about issues/complaints seem to be handled by the owners themselves versus the shop that sold the rig.

Sorry a little off-topic but just wondering what others experience.

The Entegra factory picked my coach up when it needed to go back. Since then they have added two service vans where factory techs will come to you and not put any additional miles on your coach.

[ChallengerRN]

The thing I see here is that there is an attorney involved!! That changes everything !!

Russell

[Cruzer]

Originally Posted by ChallengerRN

The thing I see here is that there is an attorney involved!! That changes everything !!

Russell

If that's the case, it sure does. I know most forums even remove posts and lock down topics once it goes to a legal battle. Maybe it hasn't gone that far yet.

[50sbuckeye]

Originally Posted by RKNOLA

When we went to the Tampa RV show we looked at Tiffin and we looked at Entegra. Both really beautiful coaches.
But WOW!! I think how one RV owner treats another RV owner means a lot too. It is more than how the company treats you. When you buy an RV you become part of that brand's family. Would you all treat your family so mean?
Please reel it in a little, have some compassion and be nice! None of you were charged with being judge and jury.
Now please tell me again why I should consider an Entegra?

The fit and finish, 2yr warranty! I think brobox said it best, re-read his post.