Exploded engine battery

[Gary.Jones]

Steve

Nice to know that we now have a ex-auto/battery engineer among our midst.... we will look to you to help us understand some of this stuff.....

Lots of ex- experts owning coaches.... so we are learning more and more every day.

Don't be a stranger.

Gary

[steve52]

I once saw a tractor battery explode, up close and personal, when being jump started. It sounded like a 12 gauge shotgun, chunks of plastic and acid everywhere. Luckily nobody was injured.

[brobox]

Steve, I understand what you are saying and agree with dealers letting batteries be drained beyond repair. However my 14 was delivered direct from Entegra, but sat on their ready lot at 33 below not plugged in. That was covered under warranty. My 19 was also delivered direct as was Gary's. One of his batteries cracked as did the OP's. From those experiences, no dealer was involved, except maybe the OP's. It would be interesting to know how many batteries failed prematurely that never sat on a dealers lot. The only experience I have is the performance of the OEM batteries on my 14 vs the replacement East Penn's. The East Penn's were twice the battery, but my OEM's may have been bad from the beginning.

[757driver]

Originally Posted by Butte64

Now it appears that the chassis batteries are getting over charged. The EC30 shows the same voltage on both house and engine batteries all the time. Even when Bulk or Absorb charging at 14.7 V the engine battery also shows 14.7 V. Is this showing the BIM is stuck?
Where is the BIM on 2018 Aspire and is there a way to test it?
I’m connected to 50A shore power. Haven’t tried going to generator to see if that makes a difference.

Jerry,

IF your chassis batteries drop to 12.6v AND your house batteries are above 13.3v then your chassis batteries should receive a charge through the BIM for a 1 hour period then shut OFF. If yours are continually connected together instead of cycling the charge ON and OFF to the chassis batteries for a 1 hour period as needed then you may have a problem with your BIM.

When you see the chassis batteries have a charge going to them (as observed on your EC-30 panel) time the cycle and monitor the display closely for the next hour to see if the two battery banks disconnect from each other or not.

[photraveller]

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

Steve

Nice to know that we now have a ex-auto/battery engineer among our midst.... we will look to you to help us understand some of this stuff.....

Lots of ex- experts owning coaches.... so we are learning more and more every day.

Don't be a stranger.

Gary

I try not to be a stranger, but I also try to post when I have something to add, even if it's just my opinion.

When I first got on here, I started with magnum questions, but Don was and is further along that road than me, so I just let Don handle those, unless I see that he hasn't responded.

This one is near and dear to my heart since I have had batteries explode on me both initially and by oops a number of times in my working career. So that and my other battery background is why I am posting so much in this thread.

Having said all that, I am just "a lowly electrical engineer" I'm not considered a battery engineer. True battery engineers which are almost all Chemical Engineers treat me like an electrician. But I got used to that. They dream stuff up then guys like me had to figure out how to make them.

I spent my career on the production side of things doing both mechanical and electrical design either at GM, or engineering companies supplying machine automation or battery charging systems.

So, my roots are in the "real world of what works" vs. the theory of design engineers. Kind of like this forum in a nut shell.

Steve

[Gary.Jones]

That’s good enough for me !!! ..

Gary

[Butte64]

Thanks for all the replies and great information. After putting together all this information and consultation with CS, the conclusion was that after installing new batteries the BIM was stuck so that charge voltage was always going to the chassis batteries. No way to tell if it was that way before. Was getting ready to order a new BIM but first tried flipping battery disconnect and battery merge switches. That appeared to unstuck the BIM and so far charge operation is back to normal.

[photraveller]

Originally Posted by brobox

Steve, I understand what you are saying and agree with dealers letting batteries be drained beyond repair. However my 14 was delivered direct from Entegra, but sat on their ready lot at 33 below not plugged in. That was covered under warranty. My 19 was also delivered direct as was Gary's. One of his batteries cracked as did the OP's. From those experiences, no dealer was involved, except maybe the OP's. It would be interesting to know how many batteries failed prematurely that never sat on a dealers lot. The only experience I have is the performance of the OEM batteries on my 14 vs the replacement East Penn's. The East Penn's were twice the battery, but my OEM's may have been bad from the beginning.

Chuck in a way I think we are both saying the same thing. I just wanted to point out there is a discharge abuse portion to the equation.

Bottom line, Entegra/Spartan choose to purchase a cheaply made battery. Deka or any number of manufacturers could provide a much better battery that would hold up much better. However they can't provide it for the price point that Entegra/Spartan want.

Add to it, that the warranty sounds like it is almost non existent so no one has an incentive to improve the batteries.

While I greatly admire Deka/East Penn just about any after market battery you find on the shelf will be better than most OEM batteries. Just the way the "game" is played.

In a battery lead is king. To make cheap batteries manufacturers remove lead plates and/or make them thinner. They also do things like not adding hot melt to the top of the plate groups to help with vibration.

All that said, they should not be splitting or exploding. So what is going on?

Do we have a system (BIM) that isn't working as designed? I'm sure it is full of cheap parts as well.

Do we have a heat issue? Sure DPs have had batteries located in the rear for decades, but with exhaust treatment and regen processes is the heat inching over the edge? There is a good reason why new cars use blankets, boxes, and even fresh air scoops to keep that batteries cooler.

Or is it just the race to the bottom, don't care about quality just give me the product at the price point I want?

Sad thing is, I'm sure there are hundreds of people that could solve this problem with just minimal research and access to the batteries. Another example of the difference between automotive and RV's.

Steve

[photraveller]

Originally Posted by Butte64

Thanks for all the replies and great information. After putting together all this information and consultation with CS, the conclusion was that after installing new batteries the BIM was stuck so that charge voltage was always going to the chassis batteries. No way to tell if it was that way before. Was getting ready to order a new BIM but first tried flipping battery disconnect and battery merge switches. That appeared to unstuck the BIM and so far charge operation is back to normal.

Well that is scary! How many people take the time to check if their BIM is getting stuck "locked up" like some of our other systems that respond to 12V reset.

I can pretty much guarantee if the BIM is stuck, you will fry your chassis batteries fairly quickly.

Steve

[brobox]

Originally Posted by photraveller

Or is it just the race to the bottom, don't care about quality just give me the product at the price point I want?

Sad thing is, I'm sure there are hundreds of people that could solve this problem with just minimal research and access to the batteries. Another example of the difference between automotive and RV's.

Steve

Steve, There's the problem. For $400,000 to $500,000. at least put batteries in that will last as long as the battery in a $32,000 pickup truck.

[Mark D]

I would go with Interstate.

Originally Posted by Butte64

On Saturday I drove my 2018 Aspire from FL to SC with no problems.**Charging voltage was a consistent**13.8V.

Plugged into 50A and all appeared OK.

Yesterday I noticed some pieces of plastic on the ground at the rear and thought it was debris from something.**It rained and when I noticed some white stuff I wondered if it was excess soap coming off the roof.

This morning ground is dry and I thought the white stuff was DEF, maybe some kind of overflow or broken line.**I was shocked when I opened the door and saw the rear engine battery had exploded and fluid gone.**

Magnum shows charging 13.6V and EC30 shows both batteries 13.6.**Batteries are wired in parallel and voltmeter on battery shows 13.6 on both, even though I’m sure the exploded battery is not doing anything.

Entegra CS was not any help, said to get it to a Spartan shop to check the alternator.**We did go through charger settings on Magnum to ensure they were correct.**Spartan says batteries out of warranty and both need to be replaced.**Problem could be inverter so need to talk to Entegra.**Does not appear to be alternator since system dash readout shows consistent 13.8V charging and no check engine.

Obviously both batteries need to be replaced.**Any recommendations on brand and source?**I am located near Augusta, Ga.**

Any immediate action suggested to prevent any other problems?**Everything in coach is working and I am at home so not critical to get moving right away.**

Any suggestions welcome.

[Gary.Jones]

I would gladly recoup $15,000 and forget the steerable tag axle, and definitely give up the ACC/CMS for another ~ $6,000 and gladly dump and additional couple of hundred bucks out of that $21,000 savings for better batteries.... Go figure...

Gary

[photraveller]

Originally Posted by steve52

I once saw a tractor battery explode, up close and personal, when being jump started. It sounded like a 12 gauge shotgun, chunks of plastic and acid everywhere. Luckily nobody was injured.

Yep, it will get your attention.

During cranking is the usual time that they explode. Every battery have spark arrestors (which are quite fun to test by the way ), that prevent external sparks from causing an explosion. So the spark source usually comes from inside from a failed connection that is above the acid level. So another reason to keep those water levels up.

Steve

[photraveller]

Originally Posted by brobox

Steve, There's the problem. For $400,000 to $500,000. at least put batteries in that will last as long as the battery in a $32,000 pickup truck.

Chuck, TOTALLY agree. this is the radiator issue all over again at the pennies level!

Same for those front shocks on your classic and my Aspire. Now we might have a BIM to worry about too. The list goes on and on.

Steve