Community Forums

jb4545 · 09-02-2015, 01:41 PM

Just got check engine light when I pulled into campground. Cummins Southern Plains appointment 2 weeks out. Anyone had this code?

SGTrvlr · 09-02-2015, 05:37 PM

Looks like low voltage or shorted - SCR intake gas temp. You can go to app store and download Cummins Fault Code Advisor and Cummins QuickServe Mobile Apps. You will need your ESN(Engine Serial Number) to use these apps.

jb4545 · 09-02-2015, 06:01 PM

Update - Spartan thought it was a temp sensor on the DEF/exhaust system and I was getting a Hi Voltage message with the fault code on the Silverleaf. Anyway I will update for everyone in case it happens to someone else.

I was moving the coach out of storage today and packing up for a trip. I had started and moved the coach for short distances 3 or 4 times. I always wait for the check engine light to go out before I start the engine but with everything that was going on I can not remember waiting for the light to go out before I pulled out of the storage lot. Not sure if I did or not and the engine was in hi idle for 5 minutes or so.

I drove about 3 miles to a local RV park to set up for the night. When I pulled into my space I noticed the check engine light. I called Spartan and Dave was very helpful trying to get me into a shop in the Houston Area. Everyone was booked. Thought I was looking at a 2 week wait. We did find a shop that could hook up and run diagnostics but did not have an opening to do repairs. I was headed there first thing in the morning.

I decided to move the coach out of the pull through space and leave it in the parking lot so I could take to the shop tomorrow. I started the coach and left it hi idle for about 6 or 7 minutes and moved it a couple hundred yards. While doing this the fault code cleared.

I took the coach out and drove about 50 miles and still no check engine light. I am going to make a lap around the beltway tomorrow before we leave on our trip.

I hate it when something like this happens before we leave on a trip………..

MCJones · 09-02-2015, 06:10 PM

they hardly ever fix themselves. I would keep the appointment and let them take a look. some codes clear on a restart but they are there for the reader. In my experience, it will occur again. jmo mark

jb4545 · 09-02-2015, 06:18 PM

It has disappeared from the light bar and the Silverleaf. I talked to the Cummins tech and he said if it wasn't in the log there wouldn't be anything for him to read.

Gary.Jones · 09-02-2015, 07:55 PM

JB4545

As others have said, I doubt that you have seen the last of that code. On my Anthem 450 ISL I got that check engine code four times, and three of the times, took it into the shop for a total of about 4 weeks across a 4 month span. In the meantime, I learned a lot about the exhaust system of these coaches. Now, I can't tell you 100 percent that my Spartan 4363 FMI3 is the same engine code on my Anthem as it is on your Cornerstone, but I'd bet $10,000 that it is. If you look it up on the net, It means the same thing. It is a Spartan code which translates to a different Cummins code. That Cummins code is: 3146. If you call Spartan, they will tell it has something to do with "afterprocessing and the SCR system". That means that it is the diesel particulate filter (read muffler) and it involves an over-voltage that is detected by a control module that is looking at the 12 sensors that you have in the exhaust system, and seeing something that is not normal. One of the four times the code appeared and then went off by itself, but it re-appeared and would not go away three other times. Each time Spartan said to get it to a Cummins shop ASAP as the check engine light would eventually turn into a red engine warning light, and if not resolved, would eventuate in an engine de-rating (maximum speed of 15 mph), and soon a stop engine fault that will shut you down completely.

The tech that told you there is nothing in there to check is full of baloney!!! Each time your engine throws a code, that code is logged into memory. They can see when it occurred, how long it remained, and how long it was between when you got the code and someone tried to resolve the problem.

I can make a long story short. I got that code 4 times, and Spartan had no real idea why. Cummins also had no idea why. When they connect the diagnostic computer to read codes and see that code, the computer tells them to replace the monitor unit. They did that the first time. Then 30 days later, it happened again just 20 miles after leaving Houston Cummins coach care facility for a very different problem (radiator leak)(a very good place). Since the module had just been replaced, they didn't want to replace it again, and this time they downloaded three updates to the ECM (on board computer) and they "flashed" the ECM three times with updates. That held for 30 more days, and I got the fault again. This time it went into a Spartan/Cummins shop for 3 weeks in Ft. Worth. We did tests, we checked sensors, we re-ran wires and re-crimped connectors. No one really believed that anything they thought that they found was the real problem. The local tech talked to Cummins repeatedly and Spartan repeatedly. They then checked with the trouble shooting tech for the whole north Texas area to see if he could help. Nada. Then they started what is essentially an official upper level diagnostic process. It means they can't figure it out, and they refer it to the first level of Cummins factory engineers. They came up with nothing but more wires, and more crimping. That did nothing. They would test drive it for 100 miles at a time, and did that 2 times and no problems on the test drive. but not sure that then solved the problem and I was heading out on the road for 3 months. Then it was referred to the second level of Cummins factory engineers and they came back with a suggestion. They said there was a "known issue" with the control module that they had in my coach initially, and the replacement they installed about April 2015, and advised the last shop to install yet another control module more recent than May 5, 2015 (a manufacturing date code after 5-5-2015). They had to get one shipped in, and installed it and drove the coach another 100 miles. They guessed that would fix the problem, but the only way to know was to start the trip and be prepared to spend more time in the shop. We have now logged 1800 miles and everything is running as it should run. Thank God.!!!

Take your coach into the shop. Tell them about my experience and ask them to look up on their computer diagnostic analysis (something like Special Diagnostic Process or something similar) and they will find my coach and most likely find your problem. It drove everyone nuts for quite a while and I was pulling out my hair as we were 3 days from heading out on a long trip when they found the problem. It took factory engineers to figure it out.

It was the same code each time and the specific problem was that the control module "thought" it was seeing an excessive temperature on one section of the DPF "catalytic converter /DEF system". I am guessing that the module was mis programmed or had a bad circuit in it so it mis-read a normal temperature as a problem temperature. These coaches do not ignore exhaust problems, and will shut you down if you don't resolve the problem.

Good luck

Gary

jb4545 · 09-02-2015, 08:43 PM

Gary - Thanks for the detailed write up. I did some research when I got home and I bet your right, it's the same code. The "Cummins tech" I referred to was a service advisor at a small shop near the ship channel in Houston. Spartan had me talk to them as Cummins coach care presently has a 3 week wait. I am going to wait and schedule an appointment with Cummins instead of going to a shop that is not on Cummins approved list.

We have a 2 week trip planned but will only be driving 500 miles round trip. Bunch of family coming and with the holiday weekend all the cottages and cabins are full. I am going to talk to Cummins tomorrow and see what they say about driving the coach until I get it in. Spartan said if the code cleared it should be OK to drive…………..famous last words!

Thanks again, I will be sure and take your write up with me when I go in.

Gary.Jones · 09-03-2015, 05:17 AM

I was very impressed with Houston Cummins Coach Care. The service manager is a fellow with a last name like Hernandez or Martinez. I think his first name is Dean. Found him quite smart and knowledgeable. However, the whole system did not understand the problem, so he was in the dark as much as everyone was. However, the place is a good shop and does good work. We had loads of food in the refrigerators and they kept us hooked to 50A the whole time. Also, their techs are all factory trained so they know what they should be doing. The big issue is that it is owned by Cummins itself, which means that they are all in the same boat and all working for the same people. The shop that had my coach the last time was a Spartan and Cummins certified shop but not owned by Cummins, and therefore, Cummins had little real control about what was happening, and they would work on my coach for a couple of hours, then put it in the yard and do nothing for three or four days, then bring it back in and try something (crimp wires), then push it back out and do nothing, etc. etc. They stayed with it, I think, until they and Cummins figured it out, but it was very frustrating. If you can wait, my advice is to take it to CoachCare and you will end up better. That is my advice to anyone who has a diesel-chassis issue... go to a place that is administratively "very close" to the manufacturer.

Now, I asked several Spartan and Cummins reps about the importance of the code because I was in the same position as you.... needing to drive it. The official advice is to get to a service center ASAP. However, the last time, I was 240 miles from the shop that figured it out, and so I had to try to drive it and see what happened. I made it OK. They said, if it shifted to a warning light, to pull over in some safe location, and let everything cool down, and then try firing up again. The tech at Spartan I was talking to was Shane, and he talked to Cummins and that was their advice. However, I was on pins and needles the whole time until we pulled into the repair facility..... I did not want to be towed. I think the real problem is they don't really know what the consequences of it are. They did say that if it was too long between when the engine threw the code, and when I tried to get it repaired, that it could impact the amount of liability I had for the failure, and therefore, their willingness to shoulder the repair costs. That scared the crap out of me, so I was very serious about the whole thing. Hope your problem is not mine, but wanted to make you aware of some of the issues.

Also, hope that I never see that code again while I own this coach...

Gary

DebbieMH · 09-03-2015, 05:37 AM

Wow, Gary - quite a story. Thanks for posting for the rest of us. You may have saved several agonizing days/months for several folks with your post! Sorry it happened to you, but glad you were able to finally head out. Lynn

jb4545 · 09-03-2015, 05:47 AM

Gary - How many miles did you have on the coach when the problem showed up? Gathering information to talk to Cummins this morning.

Gary.Jones · 09-03-2015, 05:31 PM

The coach had 1200 miles on it when we bought it from delivery from Elkhart. I would guess that we put another 500 miles on it before we got the first code. It was a small drive about a week before Kerryville rally, and just drove it about 10 miles away from home to shopping center to warm everything up and make sure everything was working, turned around and headed home and near home the code appeared. Second time was exactly 30 days later on the way home from Kerrville rally and a week in Austin, TX and we had radiator replaced at Houston Cummins Coach Care. Picked up coach about a week later from Houston Cummins CC and got about 20 miles from the shop and got the code the second time and turned around and went right back to Coach Care for them to work on it. The third time was again about a month later and I was driving it over to an RV repair center to have the fresh water tank replaced (crack in tank), and when I was maybe 3 or 4 miles from home, the engine threw the code the third time. There was a fourth time that cleared itself and don't remember the specifics. I think the self correcting code occurred between the second and last time in my sequence. Each time, the engine was relatively cold although I always let it idle while connecting up the CR-V and so it usually idles about 15 minutes or more before I take off, so the engine is not stone cold. I would say temp is up to normal by that time. But each time, I was 5-10-20 miles into a new short trip when the code appeared. I am about 240 miles east of Ft. Worth where I was going to get it fixed the third time, so I had to drive with the code showing the full trip. The engine did not de-rate, and it did not do what I was fearing that it would do, shut down or force me to the side of the road. The techs could see each time that it occurred and what happened after it occurred, and that is all logged in the on-board computer and comes up on their screen. Each time, the control module saw an over-voltage on a sensor in the diesel particulate filter (muffler), and it was always the same sensor, but when they ohmed the sensor, it checked out fine. They checked wiring harnesses and re-crimped connectors.

The worst thing about a problem such as this is that it was intermittent. They would clear the fault, and everything world run fine for some time, the fault again. There is nothing worse than an intermittent fault. My understanding however is that the problem is either an electronic component problem within the sensor, or a programming problem, or something else. Very frustrating.

I thought I would provide sufficient detail since I know other coaches will have trouble with this. Once Cummins launched the special diagnostic process and brought in the heavy hitters, they could see another coach sitting somewhere with the same problem and no solution also waiting an answer. The neat thing about this computer diagnostic process is that they record the problems, the characteristics, the attempts at a fix, and a final fix into a database so any other tech in any other location can access that information if he has similar problems and symptoms, it will lead them to the solution.

Had another problem today on I-95, but that is a different problem and I will start a new thread to deal with it. Again, good luck. PM me if I can give you more specifics.

Gary

jb4545 · 09-03-2015, 06:12 PM

Thanks Gary - I talked to Cummins today and have an appointment at Cummins SP late this month. There is a campaign out on the Cummins website to update the ECM (I think this is module they replaced on yours) with new software and Cummins did state that the fault parameters are different and that could solve the problem. They thought it was either that or a bad sensor. I did another 100 mile test drive today and the fault code did not reappear. Cummins thought it would be OK for a short trip as long as I don't have an active code.

Mine also threw the code after a short trip yesterday. I thought maybe I had gotten things out of sequence with the start/stops moving out of the garage and packing up. I let the temp come up to 165f on fast idle before both of my test drives and I'm not sure it came up that high before I hit the road yesterday.

Thanks again! The info you provided was very helpful when talking to Cummins today………..

Good or bad or will post an update after the trip and the visit to Cummins. Hope your problems today were minor……..

waterboy10 · 09-04-2015, 12:40 PM

It was my understanding the long periods of idling will create potential code issues. Maybe that is the root of your problems. I do not idle, just start the coach and move down the road and allow the engine to get to operating temperature before I go to a high speed. Just a thought.

brobox · 09-04-2015, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterboy10

It was my understanding the long periods of idling will create potential code issues. Maybe that is the root of your problems. I do not idle, just start the coach and move down the road and allow the engine to get to operating temperature before I go to a high speed. Just a thought.

I was told the same thing from Spartan. Long periods of idling can cause the DEF system to go into an 1800 degree regeneration that can cause various error codes. With the "new" type of DEF system I think they are still learning the troubleshooting symptoms as on Gary's coach.

I was also told to always use fast idle just long enough to air up, shut the engine off, then bring in the slides and make ready to leave without running the engine.