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Old 07-27-2015, 06:05 AM   #1
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Fault code SPN 5585, FMI 18

In the interest of sharing a fault code we got after not being able to start the coach and the results I wanted to post this.

Long story short, we were getting the coach ready one evening to move to Cummins for an early morning appointment. We started the coach only to have it run for a minute stop and not want to start again. Solid cranking power, just would not run. Went to look for a fault code to try and understand what was happening and had the one above SPN 5585, FMI 18. Went to Charlie at Spartan and the next morning he emailed the meaning to us as follows:

“Engine Injector Metering Rail 1 Cranking Pressure Data Valid But Below Normal Operating Range - Moderately Severe Level” Cummins code 4691.

Most of the Cummins people would not even listen to me about the fault code, apparently it is not theirs and they do not feel it pertains to them. I finally got my service manager for my morning appointment to return a call a first and last occurrence, and got him to let me read the fault code to him. He paused for a minute and said he was familiar with the Cummins code and suggested I do the following: turn the key off wait a full minute, turn it on without cranking the coach, wait a full minute try to start it. If on the third try doing this it did not start call him. Third time kicked right over. Apparently operator error on our part, but seems there is a benefit to turning on the key waiting a minute and then starting the coach, or apparently that was the answer after we got it to Cummins.

I hope no one experiences this, but should they; give this a try. I am still amazed it worked, even cancelled the tow truck, but then that is another story entirely.
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:58 AM   #2
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Actually, according to Spartan, most don't start their coaches correctly. I have the sheet Spartan gave us at the school, but, basically - this is what you do.

Turn your key to light up the dash, but do not crank it to start. Press brake and wait until you hear 4-6 pops. By that time the wait to start light should be out. Then crank the coach. Then press brake hard once. That calibrates the brakes. Again, according to Spartan, doing it this way will prevent quite a few "codes".
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:11 AM   #3
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Thanks to both of you for very informative posts.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:22 AM   #4
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On a diesel, you should only start it once the amber engine light goes out in the dash panel. Turn key on, amber engine icon appears, when light goes out, crank engine. Also make sure you run on fast idle, if not then your DEF fluid will build up in exhaust and shut you down. Once the engine is idling, turn cruise on, then hit set and it will automatically run at 1000 RPM.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:50 AM   #5
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Also make sure you run on fast idle, if not then your DEF fluid will build up in exhaust and shut you down.

Where did you hear THAT? There are a couple of reasons for fast idle, but I never heard of DEF fluid build up shutting you down as one of them. Noel
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:15 AM   #6
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Can't confirm the def comment but I can tell you on my 08 the computer readout said I did a lot of idling. No way I say to myself then do a calculation of actual hours driving versus parking, fueling, stop and go traffic and I can no longer argue that I do quite a bit of idling. They did not indicate this to be a big issue but was noted.

I rarely idle fast because it is so noisy and I don't like to bother neighbors.

If you get any codes associated with your DPF pay attention and get it to a dealer asap. A manual regeneration is going to cost around $1000 but cheaper than a replacement. If you include a tow it can be close to 5K.
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DebbieMH View Post
Actually, according to Spartan, most don't start their coaches correctly. I have the sheet Spartan gave us at the school, but, basically - this is what you do.

Turn your key to light up the dash, but do not crank it to start. Press brake and wait until you hear 4-6 pops. By that time the wait to start light should be out. Then crank the coach. Then press brake hard once. That calibrates the brakes. Again, according to Spartan, doing it this way will prevent quite a few "codes".
A few modifications to this one guys. Spartan suggests placing your foot on the brake with medium pressure then turn the key on and listen for the ABS valves to fire off. Wait for the dash lights to go out and then start. Once the park brake is released then push the brake pedal to the floor to adjust the brakes through the slack adjusters.
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Old 07-27-2015, 09:03 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 50sbuckeye View Post
Also make sure you run on fast idle, if not then your DEF fluid will build up in exhaust and shut you down.
I have never heard of that.
Prolonged idle will probably result in more incomplete combustion and soot particles, which could build up in the DPF (diesel particulate filter), requiring regeneration. Maybe that's what you're thinking of.
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Old 07-27-2015, 09:22 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by 757driver View Post
A few modifications to this one guys. Spartan suggests placing your foot on the brake with medium pressure then turn the key on and listen for the ABS valves to fire off. Wait for the dash lights to go out and then start. Once the park brake is released then push the brake pedal to the floor to adjust the brakes through the slack adjusters.
Agree, here is the sheet Spartan gave the class in June 2014: ABS light 2014 Anthem

As I recall Spartan told us damage could result if you lay hard on the service brake with the park/spring brake engaged. There is a bypass system to prevent this but it is best practice to have the park brake released.
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Old 07-27-2015, 10:43 AM   #10
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I was told by Charlie Fisher at Spartan when I questioned why I showed discharge on start up for about 20 seconds. He said to use fast idle as the discharge was the DEF heater drawing power to heat the DEF fluid for injection. Fast idle would speed the process up and put it into charge mode sooner. He never mention about DEF chocking the system in anyway, just that fast idle helped to get into the charge mode.
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Old 07-27-2015, 01:45 PM   #11
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This discussion is very interesting because my coach is currently in a Spartan and Cummins shop for the third time in a little over 70 days. I am interested in whether any of you have any observations or suggestions as to whether this might be related to this discussion.

I have gotten a Spartan Code SPN 4363-FMI3 three times. That translates into a Cummins code 3146. That translates into something like: "Problem in afterprocessing section..." There is mention of Diesel Particulate Filters and SCRs (selective catalytic reduction). When Cummins scans the engine, they see the same codes, and their computer diagnostic says replace a module which monitors these processes. They did that the first time. Coach worked well on ~ 500 mile trip, and then 30 days later, 20 miles after firing up and leaving a Cummins facility after having my radiator replaced, I get the code again. That time, since they replaced the module 30 days before, they flash the ECM with three updates since my engine build. They do a "passive regeration" (revs at 1000 rpm for an hour). That clears the code and I drive ~ 300 miles home. Coach sits in driveway, I fire it up to go to an RV repair facility to have my fresh water tank replaced (due to a crack in the wall) and the coach throws the same code a third time. This time I drive it to Ft. Worth ( 230 miles) to what I thought was a CoachCare facility (it isn't), and it has been there two weeks at this point. The computer says replace the same module for the third time (they don't), and passive regeneration. It appears that Cummins and Spartan just don't know that is causing the problem. They are now tracing individual wires and individual sensors to try to figure out where the program is originating. They say their computer diagnostic system is not capable of isolating what wire, or what connector, and what sensor are leading to the codes. They say it is a "special diagnostic process" at this point. I have no trust at this point that they are going to find the problem as they haven't located it after 12 days. I was told that the DEF heater is only an issue in very cold temperatures, and the DEF heater does not operate until the temp gets down toward freezing or below and that cannot be the problem.

Now, I ALWAYS put the coach in fast idle as soon as it is running. This is 1000 rpm. I was told to do this by the tech when I picked up the coach. When I have gotten the code, it is usually within the first 5 or 10 miles I drive after sitting for 3 or 4 weeks, sometime after being in fast idle for maybe 15 - 20 minutes while I connect the toad, etc.

I am at wits end, and will be heading out for 4 months in 10 days. Any ideas from anyone? At this point, I believe it will happen again, I am afraid.

Gary
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Old 07-27-2015, 03:29 PM   #12
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I feel your pain. When we picked our coach up in Atlanta the check engine light was on...DEF sensor - high temp. Took it to Cummins in Gainesville, they did a ReGen and sent us on our way. 50 miles down the road CE on again. Back to Gainesville with same code. Replaced aftertreatment NOX sensor and another ReGen. We make it out the gate at Cummins before the CE is back on-same code. Spartan sends replacement valve for DEF Tank. Cummins R/R valve and does ReGen We drive 150 miles and CE on again, same code. Go to Cummins in Birmingham. Spartan sends new complete DEF tank with sensors. Drive 100 miles CE on again. Fill fuel tank, light goes out. Make it another 150 or so miles, CE on again. This time engine derate codes shows also. Fill with fuel and codes eliminated. Another 100 miles, CE on again (no available since B'ham). Spartan advises to continue on to Authorized SC in Big Cabin OK. CE continues to come on and off all the way to Big Cabin. Monday AM report in at Cabin Diesel in Big Cabin, OK...Noon I am called into shop. Trace (Owner) meets me at the door and advises he thinks the coolant lines to the DEF tank are reversed. Tells tech to check the lines first. Sure enough the lines are reversed. Corrects this, does an ECM update (which 2 Cummins shops and 5 visits had failed to do) and I'm out the door in 3 hrs. 1200 miles and no problems later, I am a happy camper . This had been a continuous problems from June 1 until Big Cabin on July 7.

I am telling all this to let people know sometimes, you need more than a computer code to fix a problem. There is no substitute for an EXPERIENCED, THINKING technician. I highly recommend Cabin Diesel for engine and chassis work. They are authorized Spartan, Freightliner, Cummins, Cat, and DD.
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:40 PM   #13
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Paul

I really feel for you.... My wife and I are slowly going nuts with this problem, but I am pretty sure that I would have melted into a complete puddle of confusion and frustration if I had endured what you endured. Wow!! I am so glad that you got it resolved. We spend WAY TOO MUCH MONEY on these things to have these sorts of "issues" !!

In my case, I got a call today that the shop in Ft. Worth thinks they have found the problem but they have not told me what it is. They started what is called an EDS process (Expert Diagnostic System) which is a Cummins' computerized process emanating from their computers at the factory. I am told that the EDS IS able to tap into a diagnostic history database looking for similar problems anywhere within Cummins, fixes that have been found to work elsewhere, and if necessary, the ability to lay out the fixes with the highest probability of resolution, down to the wires to check, the proper resistance of sensors, which wires should be open, grounded, etc. Cummins also has called in a Distributed Field Service Engineer to coordinate the tech at the service center and the factory engineers.

I am going to put my Spartan engineer on the phone with the field tech, and also the Cummins engineer I have been talking to on the phone with the field tech, and they are all going to need to tell me that they think this is the fix before I agree to go over and pick up the coach.

I'm not confident that this is the fix. My fingers are crossed, and we shall see. I will publish a follow-up to iRV2.

Gary
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Old 07-27-2015, 11:22 PM   #14
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Thanks Gary. I only posted so everyone will know that sometimes a very simple thing can get complicated; especially, when the techs depend only on the computer to solve the problem. Bet your problem is a simple one that has been overlooked. Sure hope so. Good luck and keep us posted.
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