House batteries

[LVUS101]

I took my Anthem into Rocky Mountain Cummins 4 a small leak at a petcock underneath the engine on Tuesday morning. I told the service rep that the batteries will need to be charged either by the generator Auto or by being plugged into a power source. I personally showed them how to hook the bus up to the power source.

The rep told me it would be plugged in and not to worry. I called yesterday to check on it and they told me it was plugged in and everything was fine. They told me that the parts were on order and that we should have the coach ready by Friday. Not hearing anything from them by 11:30 this morning Nevada time I came by and found the bus in the lot with a electrical cord plugged into the coach. The cord was a 110 and when I checked there was no power coming to the coach. The coach batteries read 6.2 + 6.3.

To say the least I am very pissed off as our Coach has been sitting here since Tuesday without power. I'm sitting in the coach with the generator running which took several minutes after I started the engine to get the generator to start.
Are the batteries ruined. Will they now never hold the proper charge. Thanks for listening to me vent.
An $8 petcock part vs the price for all of my batteries Wow way to do good business Cummins.

[brobox]

Wow, jim, sorry to hear of the problem and why I hate to take my coach in anywhere. I can't believe Cummins did not have a simple engine petcock or could get one at NAPA. That is just hard to believe. That is a common item to break during a coolant flush.

The only thing you can do on the batteries is fully charge them, them have them load tested. I don't know how that works on AGM batteries, I am still old school wet cell. Might check with the battery manufacture. Do document the problem in case a claim has to be made.

[TXBart]

My house batteries have gone to mid-8 volts twice and have recovered by plugging it in for several days. Takes a while but they have gotten to "Full Charge" both times and seem to hold a charge well.


Vance & Robin
Dexter and Winston - Old English Sheepdog Security Service
2014 Entegra Anthem 42DEQ

[Gary.Jones]

Jim

Most dealers, in my experience, don't give a crap about our coach battery state. I went crazy with a Cummins/spartan shop over in Ft. Worth which made no attempt to keep my coach tied to power (if it was out of the shop, they simply killed the salesman switch and that was it). Only the Houston Cummins CoachCare shop was really set up to have coaches powered both in the shop and out in the lot. They put a sign in the coach that it always had to be powered ( we had a refrigerator full of food and frozen meat) and they kept it cold and frozen. Very pleased with CoachCare facility. .

My batteries seem OK after the experience. I doubt yours are seriously wounded, but now you know, don't rely on them doing it right. You might have to do the set up at night to ensure it is right.

And 3 or 4 days for a petcock is pure bull puckey !!!!

Gary

[LVUS101]

Originally Posted by TXBart

My house batteries have gone to mid-8 volts twice and have recovered by plugging it in for several days. Takes a while but they have gotten to "Full Charge" both times and seem to hold a charge well.


Vance & Robin
Dexter and Winston - Old English Sheepdog Security Service
2014 Entegra Anthem 42DEQ

Vance I appreciate the info. Chuck thanks also. I have her home and charging.

[LVUS101]

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

Jim

Most dealers, in my experience, don't give a crap about our coach battery state. I went crazy with a Cummins/spartan shop over in Ft. Worth which made no attempt to keep my coach tied to power (if it was out of the shop, they simply killed the salesman switch and that was it). Only the Houston Cummins CoachCare shop was really set up to have coaches powered both in the shop and out in the lot. They put a sign in the coach that it always had to be powered ( we had a refrigerator full of food and frozen meat) and they kept it cold and frozen. Very pleased with CoachCare facility. .

My batteries seem OK after the experience. I doubt yours are seriously wounded, but now you know, don't rely on them doing it right. You might have to do the set up at night to ensure it is right.

And 3 or 4 days for a petcock is pure bull puckey !!!!

Gary

Gary I dropped her off at noon on Tuesday and explained everything to the rep who reassured me that it would be plugged in when not in being worked on. I even showed him the surge protector I also plugged in the surge protector onto my 50 amp cord left my 30 amp adapter took him inside the coach and I showed him what they were reading at the time and what they could not go down to. I told him I could set the auto gen and showed him how to set it once they move the couch. The rep told me they don't like the generators running because they don't think they'll turn off. I said no problem just as long as you're plugged in and he reassured me that it would be. I called back yesterday that being Thursday afternoon and asked him how the coach was doing when I would expect to get it back and how the batteries were doing. He once again reassured me that it was plugged in and that the parts would be in Thursday afternoon and they'd have it done Friday. The problem wasn't the petcock it was waiting on a hose that I had a leak also with. That part had to come from Spartan.

I could tell the rep was becoming very annoyed with me asking about the batteries on Thursday. So not hearing anything from them at about 11:30 today i drove down there. The rep was very hesitant to take me out to the back and finally his supervisor came and took me out to the back where the coach was parked. My key fob would not work. I opened up the coach manually and read the voltage which was 6-2 and 6-3. I went around to the electrical cord and they had a 110 extension cord going into the adapter but there was no power to it.

I am not one to get mad but this really has me fuming. If I had not gone down there and just left it there on their word that it had power Friday night Saturday night Sunday night and Monday I would have gone back sometime in the afternoon Monday and they probably would have been ruined if they're not already. Yes we owners of beautiful Entegra coaches expect more from service people. All I expect is not to be lied to and just a little bit just a tiny bit of Competency when it comes to dealing with my Coach.
Yes all my food is now in their dumpster.

So how do I test these batteries other than just watching the numbers. Can these be tested even though they are sealed. What is the normal life of these when they are kept at the proper levels.
Again thanks for letting me rant. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and input.
Ps I also called Entegra and told them what happen. If the batteries fail and i go to warranty I want Entegra to know who caused it. Thanks

[brobox]

Originally Posted by LVUS101

Vance I appreciate the info. Chuck thanks also. I have her home and charging.

I think you will be fine....AGM's are pretty tough batteries. I also had dead batteries when the circuit breaker was tripped at the hanger. The batteries all came back to life fine.

[FreshAir]

Originally Posted by LVUS101

To say the least I am very pissed off as our Coach has been sitting here since Tuesday without power. I'm sitting in the coach with the generator running which took several minutes after I started the engine to get the generator to start.
Are the batteries ruined. Will they now never hold the proper charge. Thanks for listening to me vent.
An $8 petcock part vs the price for all of my batteries Wow way to do good business Cummins.

This might help,

PowerStar® Brand AGM Sealed Lead Acid Batteries

10 Facts about AGM Batteries

1. AGM batteries were originally developed for the military and so are very robust and can take much more abuse than wet-cell or standard deep-cycle gel batteries. As the electrolyte is contained within the glass mats, there is nothing to leak or spill and they are relatively free from freezing damage.

2. As with other sealed batteries there is little to no maintenance with AGMs. Even more of an advantage is that most of them are 'recombinant'. What this means is that the oxygen and hydrogen combine inside the battery during charging cycles to form water - hence very little water loss and hydrogen emission. These batteries are therefore less hazardous than their counterparts.

3. AGM batteries can be stored in otherwise prohibited areas because of their advantages of no leakage and no fumes. Another advantage of this property is that they can be stored on end or on their sides if need be without damage.

4. The battery construction places the electrolyte in closer proximity to the active plate material. This enhances the efficiency of both discharge and charge cycles. Because of this, and because the internal resistance of the battery is very low they generally charge at a faster rate and to a higher capacity than non-AGM batteries. They can also take heavy discharge rates without damage and can take the occasional discharge below the recommended 50% of capacity rule.

5. AGMs have a very low discharge rate when stored for extended periods, and even if left to totally discharge in storage they can be quickly recharged back to over 95% of their capacity providing they have not been left too long in a discharged state. The advantage is, no flat battery after storing for extended periods (within reason of course).

6. Under normal operating conditions, a good service life of up to 5 years can be attained. With quality care and handling, managed discharge and charge even longer lifetimes are common. Some reports quote up to 10 years.

7. AGM batteries are quite a bit more expensive that conventional wet-cell and standard deep cycle. But if you measure this cost against their robustness, longer life expectancy and better performance, they still present as the best value for money over the longer term.

8. A 'normal' car alternator will only charge a wet-cell type battery to around 70-80% of its capacity. Because of its higher charging rates an AGM battery will just about fully charge and at a faster rate from the same type of alternator.

9. AGM batteries are capable of charging rates up to 75% of their rated ampere hour capacity. In some cases this can lead to damaged alternators or standard auto chargers that may be susceptible to the excessive heat generated when trying to deliver maximum amps. The good point though is that AGMs will charge at lesser rates and be quite happy doing that. But, if you are going to spend money on a quality battery then you should really be looking at buying a quality three-stage charger.

10. AGM batteries can handle a multitude of roles. They can be used as starting batteries, in deep cycle applications, or as standby batteries for critical powered systems. These reasons make them ideal for camping applications. They can also be connected in series or parallel banks providing for various terminal voltages and ampere capacities. I use two AGMs wired in parallel in my pop-up camper. They are charged via a three stage 'Smart' charger and I have never had an issue with them.

[LVUS101]

Originally Posted by FreshAir

This might help,

PowerStar® Brand AGM Sealed Lead Acid Batteries

10 Facts about AGM Batteries

1. AGM batteries were originally developed for the military and so are very robust and can take much more abuse than wet-cell or standard deep-cycle gel batteries. As the electrolyte is contained within the glass mats, there is nothing to leak or spill and they are relatively free from freezing damage.

2. As with other sealed batteries there is little to no maintenance with AGMs. Even more of an advantage is that most of them are 'recombinant'. What this means is that the oxygen and hydrogen combine inside the battery during charging cycles to form water - hence very little water loss and hydrogen emission. These batteries are therefore less hazardous than their counterparts.

3. AGM batteries can be stored in otherwise prohibited areas because of their advantages of no leakage and no fumes. Another advantage of this property is that they can be stored on end or on their sides if need be without damage.

4. The battery construction places the electrolyte in closer proximity to the active plate material. This enhances the efficiency of both discharge and charge cycles. Because of this, and because the internal resistance of the battery is very low they generally charge at a faster rate and to a higher capacity than non-AGM batteries. They can also take heavy discharge rates without damage and can take the occasional discharge below the recommended 50% of capacity rule.

5. AGMs have a very low discharge rate when stored for extended periods, and even if left to totally discharge in storage they can be quickly recharged back to over 95% of their capacity providing they have not been left too long in a discharged state. The advantage is, no flat battery after storing for extended periods (within reason of course).

6. Under normal operating conditions, a good service life of up to 5 years can be attained. With quality care and handling, managed discharge and charge even longer lifetimes are common. Some reports quote up to 10 years.

7. AGM batteries are quite a bit more expensive that conventional wet-cell and standard deep cycle. But if you measure this cost against their robustness, longer life expectancy and better performance, they still present as the best value for money over the longer term.

8. A 'normal' car alternator will only charge a wet-cell type battery to around 70-80% of its capacity. Because of its higher charging rates an AGM battery will just about fully charge and at a faster rate from the same type of alternator.

9. AGM batteries are capable of charging rates up to 75% of their rated ampere hour capacity. In some cases this can lead to damaged alternators or standard auto chargers that may be susceptible to the excessive heat generated when trying to deliver maximum amps. The good point though is that AGMs will charge at lesser rates and be quite happy doing that. But, if you are going to spend money on a quality battery then you should really be looking at buying a quality three-stage charger.

10. AGM batteries can handle a multitude of roles. They can be used as starting batteries, in deep cycle applications, or as standby batteries for critical powered systems. These reasons make them ideal for camping applications. They can also be connected in series or parallel banks providing for various terminal voltages and ampere capacities. I use two AGMs wired in parallel in my pop-up camper. They are charged via a three stage 'Smart' charger and I have never had an issue with them.

Thanks for the info. Will check the batteries at the end of the weekend before I have to take the Coach back down to them for the original repairs.

[757driver]

By the sounds of it they plugged in your motorhome and then did not check to make sure your inverters showed a charge. It sounds like the circuit breaker for that 110 line at their shop released and no one was aware of it. A sad state of affairs especially after showing them how to do it and how much of a concern it was.

One idea to help combat this in the future is to dial back the shore power for all inverters to 5 amps each even if they say they have 30 or 50 amp service available. This way if your coach is plugged into anything the shop has your not going to release a breaker at the shop for what the battery chargers are trying to draw.

[pasdad1]

Next time it might be better to simply disconnect the negative battery terminal of the house batteries. With NO power drain, the self discharge is very slow, and the batteries would have been fine for months.

[LVUS101]

Originally Posted by 757driver

By the sounds of it they plugged in your motorhome and then did not check to make sure your inverters showed a charge. It sounds like the circuit breaker for that 110 line at their shop released and no one was aware of it. A sad state of affairs especially after showing them how to do it and how much of a concern it was.

One idea to help combat this in the future is to dial back the shore power for all inverters to 5 amps each even if they say they have 30 or 50 amp service available. This way if your coach is plugged into anything the shop has your not going to release a breaker at the shop for what the battery chargers are trying to draw.

757, That is what I believe happen. The Coach was only supposed to be there overnight waiting on some simple parts. I am just thankful I didn't just take their word on everything was good. I was pretty hot yesterday and vented to you all. Thanks for listening. I learned a valuable lesson.
Batteries have reached full charge as I am typing this. 12.9
Wondering should I turn off the 50 amp and see how long it takes to get back down to 12. Or just leave it alone for the weekend.
Thanks everyone

[LVUS101]

Originally Posted by pasdad1

Next time it might be better to simply disconnect the negative battery terminal of the house batteries. With NO power drain, the self discharge is very slow, and the batteries would have been fine for months.

Thanks for your input.

[Whitewater18]

Almost all dealers I've talked to, will store new coaches without power for weeks with worrying about the batteries. They charge them before delivery.
Even my coach sat outside in an Entegra yard without being plugged in. With the drain that occurs though the always on fuse panel, your batteries will be drained down in 2-4 days. I'm thinking of installing enough solar to cover that drain.