House Battery Maintenance??

[Gary.Jones]

Twinboat.

No, the refers in Entegra coaches does not drop the voltage on the house batteries enough to start the genny at 12 or 12.1 or I would guess 12.2. I don't see a voltage drop when my refer kicks on (either the old Samsung or the new Whirlpool in this 19). Not sure your coach or your battery bank, but that is definitely not a problem with Entegra Coaches (any of them I have heard about) unless they have a bad battery bank in the coach. The 11.7 has been a factory recommendation, I believe to let a big device come on (a coffee pot or the microwave) with a heavy initial current draw and not start the genny when on AGS, but that has never been a problem with the refer on my 15 Anthem (even when the house battery bank on my 15 needed replaced) or my 19 Cornerstone. However, if I am going to use the microwave or brew a pot of coffee, I fire up the genny before-hand anyway.

Gary

[redbaron73]

One of the issues with voltage based readings for LBCO or AGS is the load is not considered.

An example on my coach with 840Ah, and fresh charge.

A load of 190amps will give a voltage rating of 11.7-volts. This is with the microwave running. If you are doing a dish that holds the current draw high for several minutes, the LBCO or AGS will trigger.

As soon as the microwave stops, voltage returns to 12.3.

The problem with setting LBCO/AGS too low is there is no way to distinguish a load vs slow drain. A long slow drain bringing the batteries to this low voltage is allowing it to become too low.

I am not sure what options exist with the entegra computer settings. Unless it is possible to add a ME-BMK and report the SOC, you will have to be mindful of the settings, never setting the LBCO/AGS below a safe point for slow drains.

Those that want a bit more work can lower the values while under load and then raise them once back to normal loads.

On my 2019 DSDP all electric, I see typical loads of 16-25amps DC when using just the household cell phone chargers, residential refrigerator. DirecTV, wireless hotspots, and tv.

The central vac adds 50amps.

[MRUSA14]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

One of the issues with voltage based readings for LBCO or AGS is the load is not considered.

An example on my coach with 840Ah, and fresh charge.

A load of 190amps will give a voltage rating of 11.7-volts. This is with the microwave running. If you are doing a dish that holds the current draw high for several minutes, the LBCO or AGS will trigger.

As soon as the microwave stops, voltage returns to 12.3.

The problem with setting LBCO/AGS too low is there is no way to distinguish a load vs slow drain. A long slow drain bringing the batteries to this low voltage is allowing it to become too low.

I am not sure what options exist with the entegra computer settings. Unless it is possible to add a ME-BMK and report the SOC, you will have to be mindful of the settings, never setting the LBCO/AGS below a safe point for slow drains.

Those that want a bit more work can lower the values while under load and then raise them once back to normal loads.

On my 2019 DSDP all electric, I see typical loads of 16-25amps DC when using just the household cell phone chargers, residential refrigerator. DirecTV, wireless hotspots, and tv.

The central vac adds 50amps.

The above is correct. I installed a ME-BMK which shows me SOC, but the problem is that the ME-BMK does not talk to the Onan AGS which Entegra installs so I am still stuck running the AGS off of voltage which is a terrible way to do it.

The fix would be to add a Magnum ME-AGS-N Aut Gen Start unit and change the Magnum ME-RC inverter remote to the more advanced ME-ARC. This would cost about $500 for parts plus labor and would then provide Auto Gen Start based on SOC instead of voltage. That would would be a huge improvement and would allow the AGS to operate properly. AGS does not operate properly when based on voltage, because the voltage at any given state of charge varies widely depending on the load on the batteries.

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

The above is correct. I installed a ME-BMK which shows me SOC, but the problem is that the ME-BMK does not talk to the Onan AGS which Entegra installs so I am still stuck running the AGS off of voltage which is a terrible way to do it.

The fix would be to add a Magnum ME-AGS-N Aut Gen Start unit and change the Magnum ME-RC inverter remote to the more advanced ME-ARC. This would cost about $500 for parts plus labor and would then provide Auto Gen Start based on SOC instead of voltage. That would would be a huge improvement and would allow the AGS to operate properly. AGS does not operate properly when based on voltage, because the voltage at any given state of charge varies widely depending on the load on the batteries.

It sounds like your system is setup similar to mine, without a computerized system controlling the magnum charger/inverter.

For entegra models with the computerized system, does it have the ability to add the ME-BMK? I read where it was not possible yet to change the final charge mode to float. This led me to believe that other features would not be possible.

I know that Magnum allows for multiple remotes to be connected. Has anyone tried installing the ME-ARC inline with the computer system? It would be a nice experiment, but I doubt Donnie @ MHSRV will allow me to try it on their stock units

[757driver]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Using the 50% SOC of your batteries may be giving you early generator starts.

With an inverter system, the battery is always under some load, and using the 50% SOC from the battery charts is for a battery at rest.

Set at 11.7 or 11.8 volts will give a auto start closer to 50% capacity.
With the residental fridge running, the volts will drop enough to set the AGS in action to start the generator.

Even Magnum suggests a bit lower auto start voltage then the 50% SOC of a resting battery bank.

From in use tests with an average load of 25-30 DC amps a 50% SOC on an Entegra AGM battery bank represents a displayed voltage of 12.0v.

The 11.7v AGS setting that Entegra suggests represents about a 20% SOC with an average in use load. This setting will work fine for the first year or two of the house battery bank but as they age and wear out this low setting may not have the power to start the generator. If you are not around the coach at the time to monitor the system then you could very deeply discharge the house battery bank and cause damage.

There is no harm in the battery bank being discharged beyond the 50% SOC. You will only get so many amps out of the battery bank over its life. There is very little difference in using them up quickly with a deeper discharge (80% DOD (depth of discharge) ) or use them up slower (50% DOD) other than your generator may not start at the higher DOD.

A good compromise for years of use (life cycles) and reliable AGS is around 12.0v +/- .1v.

[757driver]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

It sounds like your system is setup similar to mine, without a computerized system controlling the magnum charger/inverter.

For entegra models with the computerized system, does it have the ability to add the ME-BMK? I read where it was not possible yet to change the final charge mode to float. This led me to believe that other features would not be possible.

I know that Magnum allows for multiple remotes to be connected. Has anyone tried installing the ME-ARC inline with the computer system? It would be a nice experiment, but I doubt Donnie @ MHSRV will allow me to try it on their stock units

Have not heard of anyone installing a Magnum BMK with the Vegatouch. I do not think it is possible. Another stand alone brand of battery monitor such as a Victron or Trimetric would work.

From what I have heard you can either have the Magnum bridge plugged into the inverter so it can talk to the Vegatouch panel or a Magnum remote panel but not both. Would be interesting to see if they could coexist but then which would have control over the inverter.....hmmm.

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by 757driver

Have not heard of anyone installing a Magnum BMK with the Vegatouch. I do not think it is possible. Another stand alone brand of battery monitor such as a Victron or Trimetric would work.

From what I have heard you can either have the Magnum bridge plugged into the inverter so it can talk to the Vegatouch panel or a Magnum remote panel but not both. Would be interesting to see if they could coexist but then which would have control over the inverter.....hmmm.

Precision circuits EMS installed in the newmar Dutch star connects inline with the RC/ARC. They trick the ms2812 into being used as a hybrid to provide power assist.

They also use it to control the charger, reducing the current based on other 120v load. It will even disable the charger.

While working thru the early troubles with BMK/ARC with their EMS system in my 2013, they had to upgrade the firmware and change some of the protocols.

While this was going on, I ran with 2 ARC one in the front and one in the mid bath. Changes by one where shown by the other.

For the vegatouch, the question would be how often does it send the setting for final charge method, and when does it poll.

Trial is probably the only way to get the answer.