Hughes Autoformer RV220-50SP Testimonial

[LWBAZ]

Originally Posted by The Driver

I agree your circumstance benefits from the HAF being first.

But what will you do when you're parked elsewhere and you see the HAF is boosting...and then read your EMS output that shows only 113 volts? Will you leave everything as is, and feed your air cond motors that browned-out voltage?

Your scenario has shown me the benefit of not hardwiring the HAF or the EMS, so they can be switched with each other!

Doug, if it's as hot in the hypothetical "elsewhere" location as it is inside our onsite RV garage this time of year, I'll probably opt to leave the AC units running and hope for the best!

I do understand your point regarding the potential issues associated with low voltage. The Autoformer provides an additional line of defense, but may not be the silver bullet in every conceivable situation.

Bottom line, I'm happier having it than not having it.

[The Driver]

Originally Posted by LWBAZ

Doug, if it's as hot in the hypothetical "elsewhere" location as it is inside our onsite RV garage this time of year, I'll probably opt to leave the AC units running and hope for the best!

I do understand your point regarding the potential issues associated with low voltage. The Autoformer provides an additional line of defense, but may not be the silver bullet in every conceivable situation.

Bottom line, I'm happier having it than not having it.

Haaaaa , it's sure been that hot everywhere we've been this summer!

This thread has finally shown me the value of the Autoformer...avoiding the cumulative damage to all the electric motors in these coaches.

AND the thread helped me find the Camping World deal for $450. Time will tell if they can actually deliver the thing!

[Doug29]

I hope I do not muddy the waters but I feel a few things need further discussion,
Motors have a designed operating voltage and a designed tolerance of plus or minus 10% voltage, nema standard, for us the design voltage is 115v so it is designed to operate at 104.5 to 126.5 with no issues to its life, yes efficiency and torque but nothing you or I would notice to our cooling.
Voltage drop. I do not want to get into inductive and resistance loads but let’s just look at basic power without PF and Eff. So Watts, watts are watts, a 1 horsepower motor draws 746 watts and just for simplicity let’s say the charger and inverter draw 3000 watts, so you have 3 motors(AC units) 2,238 watts plus 3000 watts = 5238 watts, this RV will have this load as long as everything is running it will not be more. So watts are watts and as voltage drops or rises amperage will rise or drop. So the campground has great voltage 120V so OHMs law 5238 w / 120 v = 43.65 amps, drop the voltage to 104v , 5238 w / 104 v = 50.36 amps the circuit breaker on the pedestal may trip. Now if you add the Auto-transformer in the circuit before or after your EMS it will have no effect on the amperage at the pedestal but your motors will see a higher voltage and will draw less amperage back to the secondary of the auto-transformer but the pedestal (campground) will still see 50 amps. Forgetting power factor and efficiency of motors watts are watts a 100 watt light bulb will only draw a 100 watts amperage will change based on voltage.
Now if your neighbor pulls in and puts a load on an already low voltage system they may drag the system down below your EMS settings and shut you down due to low voltage, then you are at zero watts zero amps. You install your auto-transformer your EMS is satisfied with the +10 volts, if your EMS is after the AT and you are back on line, but your 5238 watts causes the voltage on the system to drop and won’t you be my neighbor’s EMS takes them off line..
Voltage drop is caused by load vs resistance of the system to deliver that load, so the campground wiring (to small of conductor) has too much resistance to provide the load demand so the voltage drops, so the wires heat up and that causes more resistance and pop as voltage drops and watts stay constant amperage goes up.
Respectfully

[JLHoughton]

Ordered mine last week and received shipping conformation that it is on it's way.

[96 Wideglide]

Who's the bu..hole that started this thread ?

I have lived happily in each park, robbing an amp or two off each pedestal, being the only coach in the park with this little (but heavy) jewel !

[Victory Blue]

Originally Posted by The Driver

Nooo, the EMS allows voltage through to the Autoformer until the EMS senses below 104. The AF is boosting input from 115 down to 104.

Why boost input that's below 104? Then even the boosted voltage is poor.

Hook yours up however you want.

However, at 103V, below the cutoff threshold, the AF will bring the Voltage up to about 110V, well above the cutoff threshold. In this instance, allowing the EMS to cutoff the power because it see 103V, effectively sets a new cutoff voltage of 110V, since that’s what would have come out of the Autoformer.

Every coach without an Autoformer (most coaches) will operate on 110V, even though it’s not optimum, so why allow the EMS to cutoff power before the Autoformer can do it’s thing.

In CGs where summer voltages constantly rise and fall with usage, the voltage may only dip to the cutoff threshold for a short time and the Autoformer will keep everything running. With the EMS first in line the power to the coach will go on and off with voltage fluctuations every time the voltage dips below the cutoff threshold.

[Walt Graham]

A little advise for the Hughes Auto-former: The unit is basically a transformer and therefore should either be placed outside or in a compartment with adequate ventilation because of potential heat if it is boosting the Voltage. The unit is water resistant but not waterproof and the lower section cannot be submerged so it is suggested that it be elevated when placed on the ground. Note that building a four inch high stand should be adequate unless you have heavy rain and deeper standing water. I have had my 50 Amp unit for about three years and it has performed great and I wouldn't travel without it at all times, especially at times when we need to plug into a 30 Amp service with a 50 Amp cord. Since on my coach I don't have a compartment with adequate ventilation I place the unit right near the power connection. Once per year I hit it with a light spray of gray paint and all is good to go.

[LWBAZ]

Originally Posted by 96 Wideglide

Who's the bu..hole that started this thread ?

I have lived happily in each park, robbing an amp or two off each pedestal, being the only coach in the park with this little (but heavy) jewel !

He's allegedly on the run, but if I find him I'll be glad to land a punch or two in your name!

[96 Wideglide]

[96 Wideglide]

I'm just thankful the Newmar Clan are already at their axle capacities, and have no room left for one of these

.

[SailorSam]

Originally Posted by The Driver

"If you have 102 volts incoming the HAF will boost it to an acceptable level" is incorrect.

It would boost to about 112, which is below the level where the HAF considers voltage to be low and begins boosting (115 volts). That's not acceptable!

Again, the problem the HAF is trying to solve is the CUMULATIVE damage to motors by running on voltage below 115.

Just because the HAF BEGINS boosting at 115 does not mean 112 isn't acceptable. 115-120 volts is OPTIMAL. 3 volts below the optimal level is acceptable to me. Just a guess, but it would probably be 15-20 years before any damage manifested itself. I was in a park last week where incoming voltage was consistently 100-102 volts. In that case, even with a HAF, I expect you would turn your AC's off? It was 98 degrees daytime and 85 at night....

[ET-S]

I Used a auto transformer in my old RV but it didn't have an auto transfer switch I Have A large surge protector installed in my power cabinet attached to power cord so far no problems, I still have auto-transformers and would like to sell them, They are the yellow ones Camping world sell. Located in Panama City, Fla. but I don't think you need one if you have an auto transfer box.

Originally Posted by LWBAZ

For anyone considering the purchase of a Hughes Autoformer, Camping World has a really good price on the RV220-50SP right now (July 2019). The price for that unit on the Hughes Autoformers web site is $719.00:

https://hughesautoformers.com/produc...ster-and-surge

Camping World is currently selling the same device for $529.97:

https://www.campingworld.com/hughes-...mp-102450.html

I can verify the Camping World price because I purchased one at our local Camping World store yesterday afternoon (Friday 7/19/2019). For anyone who may be interested in knowing more about the Autoformer and/or why I bought one, read on.

A few days ago, I made a post in this thread…

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/pols...ew-453082.html

…indicating that Amy & I will be at Polson Motorcoach Resort and West Glacier KOA in a month or so. Shortly thereafter I received a PM from my buddy Brain Ashworth (“Hayman”) informing me of power issues he and his friend Bill experienced last summer at West Glacier KOA.

The problem was hot afternoon/early evening weather, everyone in the park running their AC units, power to Brian’s coach and Bill’s coach being cut off by their Progressive Industries EMS units due to low voltage. They reported the issue to park management and were told the power being supplied to the park was limited due to the park’s remote location. In other words, it is what it is, not much we can do about it. Amy & I have experienced this same problem under similar conditions at various RV parks around the country.

The park maintenance guy suggested bypassing the Progressive Industries EMS as one possibility. Not surprisingly, Brian and Bill weren’t keen on doing that. Another alternative would have been running generators, but you don’t make a lot of friends doing that in a full-hookup RV park. It turned out the best solution was a Hughes Autoformer which Brian and Bill were each able to “rent” from the park. I put “rent” in quotes because I’m not sure how much the park charged them for use of the Autoformers, if anything. Brian can elaborate if he so desires.

In any case, Brian’s note got me thinking that acquiring a Hughes Autoformer before we hit the road might not be a bad idea. Then it occurred to me that there might be another reason to do so. Which is…

We are fortunate to have an enclosed RV garage here at our home in Scottsdale, Arizona. The RV garage isn’t air conditioned, but it does have two 50 amp shore power outlets. So when I need to do work inside the motorhome while it’s in the RV garage, I often run the motorhome’s roof AC units. An issue I’ve experienced is that if I try to run all three AC units in really hot weather, my Progressive Industries EMS will repeatedly cut off power to the coach due to marginally low voltage. My theory has been that with all the houses in the neighborhood (including ours) running their AC units, plus me running all three of the motorhome’s roof AC units, the overall load on the power grid and/or our home’s electrical system is enough to cause voltage drops similar to what Brian and Bill experienced at West Glacier KOA.

So, I wondered, might a Hughes Autoformer solve my problem here at home, as well as provide protection when we happen to encounter RV parks with marginal power while traveling? To verify, I called Hughes Autoformers in Anaheim, California. My call was answered right away by a guy named Brett Thomas who turned out to be polite, articulate, knowledgeable, and very helpful. (Yeah I know, what a concept.) Brett assured me an RV220-50SP Autoformer would do everything I had in mind and more, and took the time to explain the difference between the RV220-50SP and its predecessor, the RV220-50. Short version – the SP stands for Surge Protection and the newer SP model has that along with the voltage boost capabilities of the original model.

I did some quick research online and determined Camping World had the best price by a considerable margin. Called the closest CW store here in the Phoenix area, verified they had two Autoformers in stock, and asked them to hold one for me. Drove out there, made the purchase, came home, set up the Autoformer, and ran a test.

Attached are a couple of photos. The first one shows my new RV220-50SP Autoformer and the second one is a close-up of the display panel on the front of the unit.

The Autoformer isn’t all that big – the box itself is a tick over 8” wide x 10 & 1/4” tall x 5 & 1/4” deep – about the same size as a transfer switch. There’s a carrying handle on top, about 5 feet of 50 amp cord with a male plug coming out of one side, and a 50 female receptacle on the other side. Not overly large, but man is it HEAVY! The web site indicates 32 pounds, but when I weighed it with the unit still in the box it was about 37 pounds. The box and packing materials can’t have weighed more than a pound or two, so I’m calling it 35 or 36 pounds.

As noted above the difference between the original RV220-50 and the current RV220-50SP is that the SP has built in shore power diagnosis & protection. I already have a Progressive Industries EMS unit, and the Southwire/Surge Guard 40350-RVC transfer switch Entegra installs also has power diagnosis & protection, so I thought I might be able to save some money by buying an original RV220-50 Autoformer with no power protection. Interesting theory, but it didn’t prove to be the case – the Camping World price on the RV220-50SP was better than I could find on either unit anywhere I looked. And as Brett Thomas at Hughes observed, “You can never have too much power protection.”

Once I hooked up the Autoformer and saw its display panel in action, I decided I liked what it was showing me better than the Progressive Industries EMS or the Southwire/Surge Guard transfer switch. If you look at the closeup photo of the Autoformer display panel, you’ll see a total of eight indicator lights. The recommended procedure is to turn off the shore power breaker(s), plug in the Autoformer only (i.e., don’t plug in the coach just yet), then turn the shore power breaker(s) back on. When you do that, the first four lights on the left side of the panel should all light up green. The cool thing about that is that those four lights correspond to the four 50 amp power wires – Line 1, Line 2, Ground & Neutral. So if anything isn’t right with the shore power, the Autoformer will tell you specifically where the issue lies.

The bottom two lights on the left side of the display panel are normally green, indicating the surge protection circuitry is operational. If they’re red, your surge protection capability has been mortally wounded and needs to be replaced. I don’t know yet if that is something an owner can do or if the unit has to be sent back to Hughes. UPDATE: Just determined the surge protection module sells for $50 (direct from Hughes) and is user replaceable:

https://hughesautoformers.com/produc...ection-module/

The two lights on the right side of the display panel light up only when Line 1, Line 2, or both are being boosted. There’s actually a little more to it in that the Autoformer boosts voltage on both lines about 2% all the time, and about 10% when low voltage is detected on one or both of the lines. The display panel indicator lights only come on when the 10% boost is active, and only on the line being boosted. You can see how this works in a really good video demonstration by Brett Thomas, which is available here:

https://vimeo.com/333398756

Once I'd proceeded as described above and saw all six lights on the left side of the display panel lit up in green, I turned off the shore power breaker, connected the motorhome’s power cord to the Autoformer, and turned the shore power breaker back on. Everything was good, so the next thing I did was fire up all three of the motorhome’s roof AC units. While I was inside the coach, I made a note regarding which AC units are on which line. In my particular coach, the forward-most unit is on L2, while the mid-coach and aft units are on L1. As such, I figured if one of the two lines was going to need its voltage boosted, it would probably be L1.

I went back outside to watch the Autoformer’s display panel as the AC units came online. As a side note, a really nice feature of the Autoformer’s display panel is that you can see it and tell what’s going on from 15 or 20 feet away. I wasn’t out there very long before I saw a yellow light indicating L1 was being boosted. Back inside the coach, a look at the VegaTouch panel confirmed that to be the case.

Yesterday afternoon was plenty hot (yes, quite shocking for Phoenix in July), so I let all three roof AC units run all afternoon, while checking frequently for any power issues. Didn’t observe a single problem, so at this point I’m declaring myself a very satisfied Hughes Autoformer customer!

[Bigrig2]

Originally Posted by JLHoughton

Ordered mine last week and received shipping conformation that it is on it's way.

Ordered my HAF from CW online 9 days ago (Sunday) and it arrived today.

$ 477.50 (after discount & tax) delivered.

[Bigrig2]

Brett from Hughes on sequence of hook up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqTstjptTuU