RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Entegra Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-26-2018, 07:43 PM   #43
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 1
A little better explanation on how a CFCI works and why. Their main purpose is to keep someone from getting shocked.
The neutral and the ground on a 110 volt circuit have the same electrical potential. The HOT wire is a different potential. The ground is there to make sure the metal part of the outlets or mounting straps are not carrying current or voltage. The neutral carries the return side of the AC current and voltage.
What the GFCI internal circuits do is, simply said, measure the current difference between the HOT wire and the neutral and any current draw between the HOT wire and the ground. So if there is any difference, or hot wire ground current draw, and I mean down to the millivolt, then it trips the GFCI part of the circuit-breaker. Many reasons why this can happen.
As an electrician I was never in favor of the GFCI circuit-breaker combination, because when it trips it doesn't indicate why the breaker tripped, short, overload, or a CFGI issue. It is like a printer, copier, scanner, it doesn't do any of these separate issues well.
Hope this helps understand what could be going on. You do not need one of these testors to find the problem, just plug in any 3 prong cord and wiggle. Those testors are a means of causing the problem, to test if the GFCI works and if the polarity is correct. That is all they do.
You think this is bad, wait until you have to fix a circuit with an arc fault device as required in all bedrooms.
Oh yes, I agree, use a heavy extension cord and don't let it be coiled, creates a magnetic force that causes heat and voltage drop. And never change a circuit-breaker or fuse to a higher one. FIX the PROBLEM. I remember the days when we found pennies behind the old Glass fuses because they were constantly blowing

JIM
Master Electrician, retired.

All this crap is why I retired.
__________________

KeptMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-26-2018, 11:46 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
LWBAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptMan View Post
A little better explanation on how a CFCI works and why. Their main purpose is to keep someone from getting shocked.
The neutral and the ground on a 110 volt circuit have the same electrical potential. The HOT wire is a different potential. The ground is there to make sure the metal part of the outlets or mounting straps are not carrying current or voltage. The neutral carries the return side of the AC current and voltage.
What the GFCI internal circuits do is, simply said, measure the current difference between the HOT wire and the neutral and any current draw between the HOT wire and the ground. So if there is any difference, or hot wire ground current draw, and I mean down to the millivolt, then it trips the GFCI part of the circuit-breaker. Many reasons why this can happen.
As an electrician I was never in favor of the GFCI circuit-breaker combination, because when it trips it doesn't indicate why the breaker tripped, short, overload, or a CFGI issue. It is like a printer, copier, scanner, it doesn't do any of these separate issues well.
Hope this helps understand what could be going on. You do not need one of these testors to find the problem, just plug in any 3 prong cord and wiggle. Those testors are a means of causing the problem, to test if the GFCI works and if the polarity is correct. That is all they do.
You think this is bad, wait until you have to fix a circuit with an arc fault device as required in all bedrooms.
Oh yes, I agree, use a heavy extension cord and don't let it be coiled, creates a magnetic force that causes heat and voltage drop. And never change a circuit-breaker or fuse to a higher one. FIX the PROBLEM. I remember the days when we found pennies behind the old Glass fuses because they were constantly blowing

JIM
Master Electrician, retired.

All this crap is why I retired.
What if the problem is a circuit on which there are too many loads, such that the installed breaker is inadequate?

I don't mean to be argumentative and I don't mean to imply that is the problem in this particular case. I'm just saying it can happen.

As has been suggested earlier in this thread, I suspect the best approach in that situation would be to move some of the loads to a different circuit rather than upsizing the breaker, but if the engineers make a mistake the owner needs to do something.
__________________

__________________
Larry & Amy Beckner
Scottsdale, AZ
2018 Entegra Cornerstone 45B
LWBAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2018, 05:20 AM   #45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 14,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by LWBAZ View Post
What if the problem is a circuit on which there are too many loads, such that the installed breaker is inadequate?

I don't mean to be argumentative and I don't mean to imply that is the problem in this particular case. I'm just saying it can happen.

As has been suggested earlier in this thread, I suspect the best approach in that situation would be to move some of the loads to a different circuit rather than upsizing the breaker, but if the engineers make a mistake the owner needs to do something.
If its an overload issue, you would have to control that or mover things off the breaker.

You can't just install a higher amp breaker in a circuit, without upgrading the wiring, because the breaker is protecting that wiring from overheating.
twinboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2018, 09:26 AM   #46
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 3
Back to the basics is my motto. First, most people fail to realize just how much electrolysis happens in an RV as it's close to that in a boat. Most electrical panels come from the factory with cheap components. If you are electric savvy you can do the following, otherwise have a professional do it...At least once a year you need to kill all shore and battery power, then pop each breaker out, dab on some dielectric grease where metal touches metal and reinstall. This will increase the life of your breakers by years. It only takes about 5 minutes, or less, but a simple way to improve all your electric IMHO. Second, breakers do go bad and it's fairly cheap to replace one if there is "any" question.
Roger45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2018, 12:21 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
LWBAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger45 View Post
Back to the basics is my motto. First, most people fail to realize just how much electrolysis happens in an RV as it's close to that in a boat. Most electrical panels come from the factory with cheap components. If you are electric savvy you can do the following, otherwise have a professional do it...At least once a year you need to kill all shore and battery power, then pop each breaker out, dab on some dielectric grease where metal touches metal and reinstall. This will increase the life of your breakers by years. It only takes about 5 minutes, or less, but a simple way to improve all your electric IMHO. Second, breakers do go bad and it's fairly cheap to replace one if there is "any" question.
Good tips - thanks for posting!
__________________
Larry & Amy Beckner
Scottsdale, AZ
2018 Entegra Cornerstone 45B
LWBAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2018, 07:09 PM   #48
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by N6CUS View Post
several times in the last few days i've noticed i have popped the living room breaker i reset and all is well i wonder if my power cord from home was too long and causing a voltage drop i had a 100 foot cord conected to my coach cord
just on a 15 amp plug i just shorten it to 50 ft and put knew ends on each end of the cord cause looked to be some melting going on with one end of the shore cord, its on a 20 amp circuit at home but i never pop that just the 20 in the coach
thinking maybe i have a bad breaker in the coach ??
I have a similar problem, my Class A is set up for 30A service. There is another breaker, 20A, that services the two A/C units. After a while, with only the A/C's drawing power (i.e.; all of the other breakers turned off), the 30A blows, but not the 20A. This indicates that the age/deterioration of the 30A is the one that is at fault. I had very similar problems with a previous RV unit. After replacing the faulty (in this case a 50A) breaker, ALL of the problems "disappeared", "magically", eh ?
rfmaude41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2018, 10:47 AM   #49
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 71
I read this string and was never clear if the breaker tripping was a GFI or not GFI. Also confused/not educated on RVs with inverters: do you really have to manually turn off an inverter breaker when connected to shore power? Is there not a relay disconnect or inverter feature that turns it off automatically?

If GFI, it is more likely sneak ground path or neutral to ground short, or intermittent/loose/corroded connectors, or moisture somewhere, or ........ They are finicky.

If NOT GFI: then load or temperature related. Bad breaker, heat due to closed compartment, too many/too large draw devices powered, all possible. You mentioned turning inverter off caused voltage to go up significantly. Get a clamp-on AC current meter and measure inverter (and other devices) current draw. Is inverter or total draw getting near breaker size? Is inverter draw and supply voltage within its published specs (defective inverter or inadequate supply voltage if not)? Is your extension cord/total length/wire size too small causing too much voltage drop, which may increase inverter draw?

Decide which above and go down the correct path.

But it seems, due to several people having similar problem, that the manufacturer might be on the hook here. I would give them a call to get their input. Refer them to this string and tell them they are getting negative publicity. Your dealer might put some pressure on them as well. You paid big $$$ for that bad boy and should not have this type of problem.

I would NEVER use the insulation displacement or push-connect method for an outlet. Always use the screws. If you mfr did not, shame on them.
evofxdwg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2018, 10:55 AM   #50
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 71
PS: and shame on mfr for not supplying electrical diagram (even a general one), for how the breaker panels, inverters, generators, and shore power systems are wired! This seems to be true of most mfrs.

We should all, as a group, protest lack of required maintenance information on our toys!
evofxdwg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2018, 11:48 AM   #51
YC1
Senior Member
 
YC1's Avatar


 
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,660
I have had a problem with our rv tripping one of the 20 amp breakers on and off for years.

I am a Senior Certified Electronic Tech so this drove me bonkers.

My front AC is a 15,000 Dometic unit. The hot sun beating on my dark color RV closet area allows the closet to get very hot. The AC panel is stuffed in there with no air circulation. The 20 amp non gfci breaker got very hot to the touch.

Yes it has been replaced twice now. I broke out the amp meter and found the front AC was drawing around 17 amps.

A hot 20 amp breaker won't tolerate much more than that and hours of running non stop makes things worse.

I found a repair memo about my AC's insulation between the covers and the AC coils etc. That repair which is not likely an issue with yours due to age reduced my current draw a couple of amps.

The other thing that helps of course is leaving the closet open so the AC can cool the face of the electrical panel. The inside of the panel got extremely hot. I do not remember the temps I measured a couple of years ago but it was very hot in there and in addition to the breakers is my EMS load shedding panel. That is not good for those electronics and I just had two relays give up the ghost inside there.

I did not want to install a fan because it is so close to the bed but I guess another fan running would not be that bad.

I have placed 1/8 inch washers between the cover and the housing to allow a tiny gap and now the breaker is much much cooler to the touch.

We are in the Sacramento valley right now with steady temps at 100+. Our AC's run without stopping during the day. No more issues for the last three weeks.
__________________
Myron & Deborah
08 HR Endeavor 40 SKQ
2012 Ford Edge Limited FWD 3.5L
Aluminator tow bar, Demco base plate
YC1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2018, 08:27 AM   #52
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Washington
Posts: 3
In my experience your first post may answer to where the problem is. The ac shore plug should never get hot unless it’s got a bad connection, bad connections cause gfci issues. Especially when making and breaking the connection. I would replace the ac receptical at the shore end. Don’t buy the 99 cent big box ones. Buy a good quality 20 amp socket. It should take noticeable effort to push the plug into it. And it should never get hot. This is how fires start. Replace it.
__________________

__________________
1994 Southwind DP Cummins
jljeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
breaker



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2008 Monaco Camelot 42PDQ Living room lights keep going out Amen Monaco Owner's Forum 4 06-07-2018 11:02 PM
Fwd Living Room.... Height/Head Room issue Kro1957 5th Wheel Discussion 23 05-31-2013 01:32 PM
Keep popping shore power breaker roadster guy MH-General Discussions & Problems 6 03-06-2013 10:31 AM
Popping Breaker Wjmt001 National RV Owner's Forum 10 04-20-2009 01:57 PM
A/C unit keeps popping the breaker on the house MandT Damon 12 06-29-2008 11:10 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.