Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Entegra Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-22-2013, 07:39 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
DSL417's Avatar


 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,209
Blog Entries: 2
Ignition, Generator, and Start Issues

So, I have been in a chassis shop for three days, and it hasn't been pretty.

On Wednesday, after dry camping at a rest area overnight, tried to start the next morning after the generator had run numerous times both during the ride Tuesday (425miles with generator in Auto Start position), and overnight, with as little as only the refrig and basement cooler, and not much else....I had a no start when I turned the ignition. Also had an ABS fault and a Check Transmission fault.

Tried many things with the customer service folks first at Entegra and then Spartan. Finally last resort, before towing someplace over 70 miles away and including me under the coach the starter connections and in the fuse boxes and battery areas, we cycled through the start three times (of a planned 5) with a fifteen second interval between each, generator on, once using the battery boost switch. Third time engine started and I limped into Ft Worth to the assigned chassis shop. On Friday, I retrieved coach and am sitting in Cowtown RV Campground (not bad on I20 West of Ft Worth). We haven't found the issue.
Do know that it may involve on of the ECMs in the starting series, maybe the ABS (which was changed one during manufacturing). But staying here through the weekend while Spartan and Entegra reassess the starting issue and the generator running over 20 hours over two days (no AC or heat pump...it is cold).

I did learn one thing...and I picked this up on the Spartan forum...I was never told this by RVOne, Entegra, or Spartan and I don't think there is a light, but I'll know tomorrow...

WHEN YOU TURN THE IGNITION ON TO THE ACCESSORY POSITION, WAIT AT LEAST SEVEN SECONDS BEFORE CONTINUING TO TURN THE ENGINE OVER.

This allows the electrical bus up front to cycle through all the ECMs associated with reporting status prior to starting (and maybe allowing to start). Had a discussion with the senior CAT technician and shop foreman at the chassis shop on this topic.

So if you didn't get told this, didn't know it, or needed a reminder...hopefully this will be a learning experience for you as it was for me.
__________________

__________________
Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
Ford F-150 and 2016 Polaris Razor
DSL417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-22-2013, 09:08 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
tnrzryd's Avatar
 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSL417 View Post
I did learn one thing...and I picked this up on the Spartan forum...I was never told this by RVOne, Entegra, or Spartan and I don't think there is a light, but I'll know tomorrow...

WHEN YOU TURN THE IGNITION ON TO THE ACCESSORY POSITION, WAIT AT LEAST SEVEN SECONDS BEFORE CONTINUING TO TURN THE ENGINE OVER.

This allows the electrical bus up front to cycle through all the ECMs associated with reporting status prior to starting (and maybe allowing to start). Had a discussion with the senior CAT technician and shop foreman at the chassis shop on this topic.

So if you didn't get told this, didn't know it, or needed a reminder...hopefully this will be a learning experience for you as it was for me.
I read about this in the User Guide for the Spartan Light Bar Message Center System. It says:

"Each time you turn the ignition on, the System lets you verify it is working by performing the initialization sequence. The System should be serviced if it does not function as shown.

Before the Initialization:
- All guage pointers move together to just below minimum scale for 1/2 second, then clockwise to minimum scale.
- All guage warning LEDs turn on for one second.
- All light bar telltales turn on for three seconds.
- All pixels in the Message Center turn on for at lest three seconds."

It doesn't say it, but I suspect that the "Wait to start" light doesn't go out until this initialization process is complete. I guess I'll have to watch next time.
__________________

__________________
Tom and Regina
2013 Entegra 44DLQ
tnrzryd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:45 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
DSL417's Avatar


 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,209
Blog Entries: 2
Tom,

From my talk with the CAT guys at the shop...this is important enough that it should be an item on the PDI checklist.

Maybe I'm just a dumb newbie, and should have read more, but I never should have left RVOne not knowing this. I suspect the techs that worked my initial punch list back in mid-Jan didn't know it because these error conditions first started showing up about that time frame during their start up of the coach.

It's possible that this change in process, for this newbie, may solve all the problems...unlikely, because i still think I have something draining the batteries, but we'll see. And it is possible it will solve nothing. But note, no mention of this came from any of the manufacturer's service reps verbally during the troubleshooting...and I'm going to go back in the user's manuals tomorrow and see why I missed it. Yes, I feel dumb for thinking that you just turn the key like you do every day with a car. Shame on me...but I'll also say that there is a lot to be learned by others about problem solving and system of systems integration (similar to thought on the surge protection discussion).

I'm not going to be a pisser and moaner ...I just want to see process improvement, continuous learning, and less problems for all in the future. I know at least one other that is having similar issues, through a PM to me. The generator issue is costing me big fuel dollars, my trip and future travel has been significantly disrupted, and my personal confidence is a little shaken.
__________________
Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
Ford F-150 and 2016 Polaris Razor
DSL417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 10:01 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
tnrzryd's Avatar
 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,022
Dave

I didn't mean anything by my posting what I read in the manual. I guess I worded it wrong as I was trying to add a little to your "seven second" statement by showing what was happening during that period. Please understand that I had no intention to make you feel like it was a put down. I apologize if I came across that way.

I agree that the startup process should be part of the CDI for everyone regardless of experience. I suspect that the dealer tech doesn't know about it either or just takes it for granted. During my CDI I asked where the check engine light is and was told it would appear as words on the light bar. No mention of an actual red lighted engine icon and alarms.
__________________
Tom and Regina
2013 Entegra 44DLQ
tnrzryd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 10:06 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
tnrzryd's Avatar
 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,022
Just in case new owners don't know about this, I found a packet in the front right overhead cabinet that contained a booklet about Florida lemon laws and a CD from Spartan. On the CD are 21 documents covering various parts of the spartan chassis. It was in these docs that I found the light bar information.
__________________
Tom and Regina
2013 Entegra 44DLQ
tnrzryd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 10:08 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
DSL417's Avatar


 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,209
Blog Entries: 2
No offense taken in any way...I do feel a little dumb...many years ago I worked around diesels, but not this much electronics in those trucks...sent PM, but I can't find the users guide you refer to in the Owner's Packet. The lack of communications about the startup process and then further about other aspects of service communication, understanding integration and problem solving processes is a likely topic of discussion early next week. I need to be convinced about a couple of things, including the lack of a couple of promised phone calls from techs. Folks like Joyce can't do it all, particularly when they are on a plane.
__________________
Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
Ford F-150 and 2016 Polaris Razor
DSL417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 10:32 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
DSL417's Avatar


 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,209
Blog Entries: 2
By the way, since there is a Florida "Lemon Law" booklet "provided" along with the CD, the booklet includes a form that the receiver of the booklet is to sign acknowledging receipt of said booklet, "Consumer Guide to the Florida Lemon Law". I don't know whether to laugh or ... since I don't cry, roll on the floor LMAO.
__________________
Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
Ford F-150 and 2016 Polaris Razor
DSL417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 07:43 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
DSL417's Avatar


 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,209
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnrzryd View Post
Just in case new owners don't know about this, I found a packet in the front right overhead cabinet that contained a booklet about Florida lemon laws and a CD from Spartan. On the CD are 21 documents covering various parts of the spartan chassis. It was in these docs that I found the light bar information.
And in the Operations section it describes the "Wait to Start" light, that basically stays on till the electrical bus runs through all the checks. Sure wished I'd read this manual 60 days ago. Will be mentioning this to Entegra to be made a part of the CDI (or as they call it, "Delivery Checklist"). Read through the entire manual this AM. Definitely stuff in there you likely didn't get during your CDI, that is need to know, for newbies like me and the more experienced new Entegra and more importantly Spartan owners.
__________________
Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
Ford F-150 and 2016 Polaris Razor
DSL417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 08:23 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
TerryO's Avatar


 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midland, Texas
Posts: 582
I always assumed the wait to start indicator was for the glow plugs to heat up. Every diesel I own has that from my power stroke to backhoes.
__________________
Terry & Gloria O
Midland, Texas
2012 Entegra Aspire 42RBQ, 2013 Ford Edge
TerryO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 09:10 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
DSL417's Avatar


 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,209
Blog Entries: 2
Not sure what that means, but if it means giving the engine and electrical systems the opportunity to "wake up" then that is a good thing

40 years since I previously dealt with diesel engines...never heard the terminology.
__________________
Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
Ford F-150 and 2016 Polaris Razor
DSL417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 09:40 AM   #11
Moderator Emeritus
 
Cruzer's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sheboygan, WI
Posts: 4,901
The initial wait is different than the intake manifold heater (called glow plugs in error quite often). The manifold heater is on any diesel and you wait before starting a cold engine to preheat the incoming intake air.

When you have a vehicle with multiplexed wiring you need to allow a few seconds for the system to boot up and initialize itself. If you quickly switvh the key on and try to crank it won't start, even with a warm engine. Older, non-multiplexed systems don't have that delay.
__________________
Mark & Leann Quasius
2016 Cornerstone 45A
2007 Allegro Bus 42QRP (Sold)
2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited - Rubicon
Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 10:27 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
hogdriver's Avatar


 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wintering-Orange Beach AL
Posts: 2,915
Exclamation Starting Problems

Like DSL417 I am having start problems. I have a 2013 Aspire DEQ on the same chassis, same engine, and similar assembly dates as DSL417. My RV has either had a drain on the chassis batteries or a turn the ignition switch and no start since the first week. I am aware of the "wait to start" light system but my 90 day old RV is undependable starting. I stored it 8 days ago, with the battery kill switch off and everything I could find off. Eight days later a dead chassis battery and no start. Battery boost would not work. I have it charging now for my trip to Cummins/Spartan repair tommorrow. I suppose some would say why not leave it charging all the time but it shouldn't operate this way. I am not griping, I am trying to work the problem and stating the facts. The facts are there is something miswired or a parasite drain on the chassis bus. I do not think 8 days is a long time to park an RV (unplugged). I am working daily with Entegra and Spartan but it is consuming a lot of my time and several hundred dollars each time in fuel to take it for repair. My wife is exasperated and ready to call Entegra and tell them to take the coach back. We have discussed lemon laws but I must let the dealerships and the factory have their opportunities to remedy the problem. My clunky old Monaco Diplomat had less problems.

The reason I bought Entegra over Monaco, Tiffin and Newmar was their quality reputation. I think Entegra needs to step it up a notch and fix this issue. So far I have had many sympathetic phone calls but now is the time for action from the factory. I know it is not a Newell, but a lot of people read these blogs. I love the appearance, the woodwork, the interior quality, the ride, the way the box is put together.

I am not mad.....yet, but I am disappointed in my new RV being very undependable to start and I hope Entegra reads this blog. My RV is less dependable riight now than my 30 year old car I had in high school. Of course I could spend $1000.00 in diesel and drive it to Middlebury, IN to get it right but I don't know why several owners are having the same problem at the same time??I hope Cummins finds a simple fix, but right now my wife and I are reluctant to take the RV anywhere for fear it'll strand us. I am very mechanically minded. I was an RV mechanic in college and I am a Mechanical Engineer but my family is disappointed every time we go out I have to break out my toolbox and meters.

I also agree the PDI checklist was childish. Entegra-Ask the owners to submit what newbies really need to know, your YouTube videos are a step in the right direction. I think there was one item about the engine and chassis and I think the Spartan manuals in multiple folders on a CD-Rom was something like I get with my Chinese manufactured lawn mower. Entegra, Cummins and Spartan need to have a "beer summit". I'll buy the first round.

Fix the problem Entegra!
__________________
Dave & Debbie
2014 Anthem 44B
2012 Jeep Rubicon toad
2016 Ford Edge toad
hogdriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 10:45 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
DSL417's Avatar


 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,209
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogdriver View Post
Like DSL417 I am having start problems. I have a 2013 Aspire DEQ on the same chassis, same engine, and similar assembly dates as DSL417. My RV has either had a drain on the chassis batteries or a turn the ignition switch and no start since the first week. I am aware of the "wait to start" light system but my 90 day old RV is undependable starting. I stored it 8 days ago, with the battery kill switch off and everything I could find off. Eight days later a dead chassis battery and no start. Battery boost would not work. I have it charging now for my trip to Cummins/Spartan repair tommorrow. I suppose some would say why not leave it charging all the time but it shouldn't operate this way. I am not griping, I am trying to work the problem and stating the facts. The facts are there is something miswired or a parasite drain on the chassis bus. I do not think 8 days is a long time to park an RV (unplugged). I am working daily with Entegra and Spartan but it is consuming a lot of my time and several hundred dollars each time in fuel to take it for repair. My wife is exasperated and ready to call Entegra and tell them to take the coach back. We have discussed lemon laws but I must let the dealerships and the factory have their opportunities to remedy the problem. My clunky old Monaco Diplomat had less problems.

The reason I bought Entegra over Monaco, Tiffin and Newmar was their quality reputation. I think Entegra needs to step it up a notch and fix this issue. So far I have had many sympathetic phone calls but now is the time for action from the factory. I know it is not a Newell, but a lot of people read these blogs. I love the appearance, the woodwork, the interior quality, the ride, the way the box is put together.

I am not mad.....yet, but I am disappointed in my new RV being very undependable to start and I hope Entegra reads this blog. My RV is less dependable riight now than my 30 year old car I had in high school. Of course I could spend $1000.00 in diesel and drive it to Middlebury, IN to get it right but I don't know why several owners are having the same problem at the same time??I hope Cummins finds a simple fix, but right now my wife and I are reluctant to take the RV anywhere for fear it'll strand us. I am very mechanically minded. I was an RV mechanic in college and I am a Mechanical Engineer but my family is disappointed every time we go out I have to break out my toolbox and meters.

I also agree the PDI checklist was childish. Entegra-Ask the owners to submit what newbies really need to know, your YouTube videos are a step in the right direction. I think there was one item about the engine and chassis and I think the Spartan manuals in multiple folders on a CD-Rom was something like I get with my Chinese manufactured lawn mower. Entegra, Cummins and Spartan need to have a "beer summit". I'll buy the first round.

Fix the problem Entegra!
Keep the chin up Dave..we're going to get this worked through.

We've got great coaches that just have a pesky issue. Might mention to the Cummings folks that the issue may be one of the ECM internal batteries has something draining it (loose connection or short). The CAT guys here think that may be it.

Good luck.
__________________
Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
Ford F-150 and 2016 Polaris Razor
DSL417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 05:46 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
bobmac's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 922
Have a friend with a new Winnebago tag with the ISL that he took delivery of in late Jan. He had an "intermittent/irregular" starting problem that was caused by a defective starter motor. He was told that many others have had the same issue. Replaced with a new starter and all is OK.
__________________

__________________
Bob
09 Journey 39Z
Southern Ontario
bobmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
generator



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.