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Old 06-21-2012, 08:32 PM   #1
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Is it Just Fate?

Last Friday, the wife and I were sitting talking about the new Tiffin Allegro Bus we were going to order soon. Our quandry was that while frequenting a Tiffin forum, we often read about major QC issues during construction. We were wishing that there was an alternative but we thought Tiffin was the best there was in our price range.

Then out of the blue, we read a thread about some company called Entegra and the poster was saying that anyone thinking of buying a new coach should check them out. We even read a great review by Cruzer on his website. So the search was on to find out what all the fuss was about.

We checked out the www.entegracoach.com website. We looked at the pictures of the different coaches and started asking ourselves "is this fate? We're we meant to have an Entegra rather than a Tiffin?"

What we saw was this. The coach that peaked our interest is the Anthem. We get our mail in a town called Anthem, AZ! We asked each other what the likelyhood would be that we'd get a coach model with the same name as the town where we shop, get mail, buy gas etc.? Then we looked at the gallery and our eyes got even bigger. "Look at the tile on the floor, on the kitchen backsplash and in the shower??" The small glass accent tiles are identical to the ones in our home for the master shower, on the backsplash for the master vanity and as accents on the tile floor. Just take a look at these pictures:

The first is our shower at home, the second is the shower in the Anthem and the third is the backsplash in the kitchen. We believe we have found the coach for us - not only because of fate but in today's market it appears to be the best quality coach for the money. Now if we only could envision the numbers for the powerball spelled out in the floor accent tiles!
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:41 PM   #2
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Go buy a lottery ticket...now...

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Old 06-21-2012, 08:44 PM   #3
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About six months ago we were in the exact same position. We had looked at Tiffins for several years and loved the "look" and reputation of these coaches. And then I started reading all the horror stories... Could our beloved dream coach be a problem for us??? Like you, we stumbled upon Entegra. In my case I was looking on EBay for used coaches and saw a 2011 Entegra Insignia. One thing led to another - and 5 days later we bought our Aspire. I would not even consider another coach maker anymore... We "aspire" to an Anthem someday but are thrilled with our Aspire. We depart on a big east coast trip shortly and can't wait to spend a few weeks in our beautiful Entegra.

Good luck in your search! There are no guarantees that you'll get the perfect coach, but Entegra comes awfully close.
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:27 PM   #4
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Have you ever meet anyone that bought their coach before ever setting foot in it ??? Well, that's what my wife and I did about 45 days ago. We put our deposit down on an Anthem. Just tonight we have come from an appreciation dinner given by Entegra to their owners. Today at the Good Sam Club Rally in Louisville we saw what we had a deposit on. We then took it for a demo ride. We spent most of the day going through all of the coaches at the show and trying to make sure that we had made the right decision. Let me tell you, we have never been more at peace about a decision this large. Not only because the coach is beautiful, but even more because of the company behind the coach. Bob Tiffen is a legend in this business, and for good reason, he is an honest man and builds a great coach. Having said that, in my opinion, the folks at Entegra are even a notch above. I don't want to go on and on here. If you would like to pm me and you have an hour to listen to all of the research I have done and the folks I have talked to, I would be happy to relay my experience to you. After today and the dinner with other Entegra owners tonight my wife and I are as excited as a couple of 4 yr. olds at Christmas If you have any questions, get in touch with me.

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Old 06-21-2012, 10:37 PM   #5
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I'm interested to know what their process is on building a tile shower in the coach. Tile and grout is not waterproof and the structure needs to be properly built and a waterproofing membrane used on the walls and shower floor before tile application. A motor coach or any trailer for that matter represents too much movement in the structure for this to make any kind of sense.
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:18 AM   #6
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EnolaEagle, adhesive technology has advanced light years and no one is using the old grout anymore, although it will still be referred to as grout.

We too were really impressed by the Anthem, but we felt we were already pushing our budget a bit past our comfort level. We found the chassis construction between our Revolution and the Anthem to be very similar and deemed the additional conveniences and features offered in the Anthem not worth a further stretch. That said, you have purchased a very fine coach and deserve to be very proud of it.

Like you, the Tiffin Bus had been at the top of our list, and we'd had very little go wrong with our Allegro Open Road, but the reports of frequent and serious quality control issues sent us looking elsewhere. Not that we didn't have our laundry list of warranty issues, we did, but no roofs peeling back, cracked tile floors or sidewalls - knock on wood!
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMonroe
EnolaEagle, adhesive technology has advanced light years and no one is using the old grout anymore, although it will still be referred to as grout.

We too were really impressed by the Anthem, but we felt we were already pushing our budget a bit past our comfort level. We found the chassis construction between our Revolution and the Anthem to be very similar and deemed the additional conveniences and features offered in the Anthem not worth a further stretch. That said, you have purchased a very fine coach and deserve to be very proud of it.

Like you, the Tiffin Bus had been at the top of our list, and we'd had very little go wrong with our Allegro Open Road, but the reports of frequent and serious quality control issues sent us looking elsewhere. Not that we didn't have our laundry list of warranty issues, we did, but no roofs peeling back, cracked tile floors or sidewalls - knock on wood!
Like I said, tile and grout is not waterproof! That goes for epoxy and urethane as well as they still have an absorption rate
If a shower is built and waterproofed properly it should withstand water and flood testing without grout as a starter. With all the movement, stress, bumps etc... In a coach, I just wonder what products they are using to apply proper membranes and tile. If they are using premixed mastic to set tile in a shower, it will definately cause a mold problem since mastic contains organic materials and never fully cures after enclosed.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnolaEagle View Post
Like I said, tile and grout is not waterproof! That goes for epoxy and urethane as well as they still have an absorption rate
If a shower is built and waterproofed properly it should withstand water and flood testing without grout as a starter. With all the movement, stress, bumps etc... In a coach, I just wonder what products they are using to apply proper membranes and tile. If they are using premixed mastic to set tile in a shower, it will definately cause a mold problem since mastic contains organic materials and never fully cures after enclosed.
Your mission if you choose to accept it is to do some research on this topic. I'm sure many of us here would be interested in what you learn.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnrzryd

Your mission if you choose to accept it is to do some research on this topic. I'm sure many of us here would be interested in what you learn.
Research is done! Shortly after my last post I gave them a call and asked for shower specs... After calling production they came back and just said that its a tile shower with a Corian seat topper. I asked to speak to production and apparently, that is not allowed... They took further questions from me and said they'd call back.
I just got off the phone and was relayed some more info but all my questions were unanswered as they went into a "quality/no issue" sales pitch...
They said the shower floor is a concrete slab and the walls are a fiberboard type cement board and the tile is installed directly to it.
They did not offer a mention on using thin set mortar vs. mastic and did not mention using any kind of preslope or rubber liner underneath the cement slab.

Given the additional movement of a motor coach they would be better off covering ALL walls, seams and shower floor with a waterproof/crack isolation membrane. In this approach when water penetrates through tile, grout, small cracks etc... It will hit the membrane and either run to weep holes in the drain or basically evaporate underneath not allowing the water to attack the structure. Also, when transitions, changes of plane and wallboard seams move, a topical fabric membrane will flex with it but not break open since it is standard to overlap by 2" with the fabric.
They said they've had no issues to date and I don't doubt them, however the overall longevity is at stake with what they have described.
I build custom showers for a living and it is risky business and any added protection in the process is key to have a successful build. As for a coach, I personally would be more comfortable with a Corian shower.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:00 PM   #10
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I will dig out some photos of showers that I built to give you a better idea of what I'm explaining..
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:21 PM   #11
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Here's some photos of a curb free shower that I did for a wheelchair bound customer.
The first photo is showing the mud base shower floor and the wall board is installed. All the seams are closed up with a cement backer mesh tape and fully mudded with thinset mortar.
After that, the whole enclosure was waterproofed with a liquid membrane that dries like rubber to keep water from penetrating to the structure
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:31 PM   #12
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:36 PM   #13
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This one I used a fabric membrane and liquid membrane.

The orange, is the fabric which is mortared to the walls and floor and all the seams are overlapped. The green is the liquid which I used around the niche and seat which transitions to the fabric and cuts down on additional overlapping in small areas.

I honestly think that for a 400+k coach, they should be taking this approach but what do I know...
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnolaEagle View Post
Research is done! Shortly after my last post I gave them a call and asked for shower specs... After calling production they came back and just said that its a tile shower with a Corian seat topper. I asked to speak to production and apparently, that is not allowed... They took further questions from me and said they'd call back.
I just got off the phone and was relayed some more info but all my questions were unanswered as they went into a "quality/no issue" sales pitch...
They said the shower floor is a concrete slab and the walls are a fiberboard type cement board and the tile is installed directly to it.
They did not offer a mention on using thin set mortar vs. mastic and did not mention using any kind of preslope or rubber liner underneath the cement slab.

Given the additional movement of a motor coach they would be better off covering ALL walls, seams and shower floor with a waterproof/crack isolation membrane. In this approach when water penetrates through tile, grout, small cracks etc... It will hit the membrane and either run to weep holes in the drain or basically evaporate underneath not allowing the water to attack the structure. Also, when transitions, changes of plane and wallboard seams move, a topical fabric membrane will flex with it but not break open since it is standard to overlap by 2" with the fabric.
They said they've had no issues to date and I don't doubt them, however the overall longevity is at stake with what they have described.
I build custom showers for a living and it is risky business and any added protection in the process is key to have a successful build. As for a coach, I personally would be more comfortable with a Corian shower.
I don't know about all that, but I have a link to a VERY detailed video about the Entegra, and one of the points covered is the structural differences that allow them to use tile in places it could not normally be used on an RV. I think you would enjoy the info they give. http://www.orlandorvdirect.com/index...8/Orlando%20RV

Kathryn
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