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06-14-2015, 03:12 PM
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#43
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 907
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That's the thing that gets me on these. These are right at 1 year old and cracking....I wouldn't expect any!
__________________
2012 Entegra Aspire
2012 Nissan Xterra Pro4x Tow
Ready Brute Elite
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06-14-2015, 03:16 PM
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#44
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachmanrvr
Sorry for not responding more frequently. I've not had the opportunity yet to contact them.
Here are some pictures:
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That's what our 8 yr old OEM Michelins looked like on the '02 Dutch Star, they were made in Spain. 275/70's BTW.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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06-17-2015, 06:13 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 907
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Two days late and still no call back from the rep...gotta love customer service.
__________________
2012 Entegra Aspire
2012 Nissan Xterra Pro4x Tow
Ready Brute Elite
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06-17-2015, 10:13 PM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Milford, Michigan
Posts: 1,115
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Michelin sidewall cracks
I am in the same boat with the Michelin sidewall cracking. 2013 Anthem with 2011 mold date on tires so everything seems to jive in terms of tire age and coach in service date. At 9500 miles all the rear tires have a continuous band of small cracks or checking completely around the sidewall. Just had the wheels off at a Michelin dealer today for valve stem replacement.
Dealer obviously recommends immediate replacement and claims he sees this with Michelins constantly. This is Seng Tire in Wixom, Michigan that services RV tires for the largest General RV store which happens to be almost next door.
Seng Tire I would recommend for anyone on the west side Detroit area if you need tire work. Very considerate, careful and accommodating. Did excellent work.
I am setting up a date with the local Michelin rep to review the situation. Hard to imagine a 4 year old tire cracked that badly and needing replacement when the tread is barely even scuffed in!! The coach has been stored outside but, seriously, tires are going to see the sun moving or stationary so it is rather disappointing. The front steer tires, however, look perfectly fine!! Seems the compound in the steer tires vs. the drive and tag tires is must be different so no checking is possible.
As a side note, however, the condition of the inner valve stems on the drive axle inner duals was appalling. I had a slow leak that turned into a fast leak and it was due to the rubber grommet that seals the valve stem to the steel inner rim. Had both sides replaced. Both were in terrible condition with the rubber grommet so hard and brittle it just was crumbling. My attention rapidly shifted from the sidewall checking on the tires to replacing valve stems that were 4 years old at the most. The aluminum outer rim uses a different valve stem that is much less sensitive to dry rot and those were fine on the few we checked.
So.....watch your inner dual steel wheel valve stems, too.
Excellent example of the Truck System Technologies TPM saving the day. I started the day with good readings on all tires and got a low pressure alert on the inner dual. The leak only occurred in motion when the valve stem was being wiggled and side loaded due to centripetal force. Gauge readings were all fine sitting in the campground. Real time tire pressure monitoring saved me from a possible tire failure as the tire starting loosing 30 PSI in 40 or 50 miles. I stopped quite a few times getting home and made use of the Porter Cable compressor onboard!! I would pump up to 120 PSI and could make 30 miles before it leaked down to 80 on the last stop before home! Then it set and did not loose any air at all for 4 days until I drove it to the tire shop. It lost 40 PSI in a 20 minute drive to the shop.
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06-17-2015, 10:25 PM
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#47
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Vintage RV Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 993
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How thick are the sidewalls on our tires? When is a crack dangerous regardless of date codes?
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06-18-2015, 12:05 PM
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#48
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Milford, Michigan
Posts: 1,115
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sidewall cracks
I am not particularly worried about the cracks I see at the moment on my tires or the pictures already posted as they are not as deep as the cords in the carcass of the tire. The cords are the real strength and the rubber layer inside the cords holds the pressure. The surface layer of rubber serves to protect the cords and is cosmetic. In many ways the cracks have little or no functiontional risk themselves but they are an indicator the outer rubber layer is becoming harder and more oxidized which makes it more susceptible to damage if you do brush a curb or hit "that wrong pothole" that could pinch the sidewall. The cracks are more a cosmetic concern than a functional one in normal situations.
The outer layer of rubber would not hold air pressure alone. If inside air pressure got past the cords and inner layer the outer layer would separate, bubble or delaminate even on a new tire almost immediately. The cracks and the hardening of the outer layer they represent just raises the risk of a void in a critical situation of hitting something, rubbing against a curb, rubbing the sidewall against the side of a pothole, against a rock or other debris, etc.
The also indicate that the tire has a little less margin if the tire were to get low on air leading to excessive sidewall flexing, etc. So...in the event of a slow leak in steady driving a checked tire is probably going to give up sooner than a brand new unchecked sidewall but that is the risk you take as neither would run forever.
This whole discussion gets around to why I personally want an operating full time tire air pressure system I can depend on. Much more critical to me than checks in the sidewalls.
........don't try this at home.......your results may vary......my opinion only......LOL
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06-18-2015, 01:09 PM
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jestal
I am not particularly worried about the cracks I see at the moment on my tires or the pictures already posted as they are not as deep as the cords in the carcass of the tire. The cords are the real strength and the rubber layer inside the cords holds the pressure. The surface layer of rubber serves to protect the cords and is cosmetic. In many ways the cracks have little or no functiontional risk themselves but they are an indicator the outer rubber layer is becoming harder and more oxidized which makes it more susceptible to damage if you do brush a curb or hit "that wrong pothole" that could pinch the sidewall. The cracks are more a cosmetic concern than a functional one in normal situations.
The outer layer of rubber would not hold air pressure alone. If inside air pressure got past the cords and inner layer the outer layer would separate, bubble or delaminate even on a new tire almost immediately. The cracks and the hardening of the outer layer they represent just raises the risk of a void in a critical situation of hitting something, rubbing against a curb, rubbing the sidewall against the side of a pothole, against a rock or other debris, etc.
The also indicate that the tire has a little less margin if the tire were to get low on air leading to excessive sidewall flexing, etc. So...in the event of a slow leak in steady driving a checked tire is probably going to give up sooner than a brand new unchecked sidewall but that is the risk you take as neither would run forever.
This whole discussion gets around to why I personally want an operating full time tire air pressure system I can depend on. Much more critical to me than checks in the sidewalls.
........don't try this at home.......your results may vary......my opinion only......LOL
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jestal
Will your "full time tire air pressure system" warn you before a sidewall blows out?
Wondering
Mel
'96 Safari
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06-18-2015, 05:34 PM
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRUSA14
I wouldn't ride on Goodyears if you gave them to me for free. I had severe river wear problems with them and a blowout on a 4 year old steer tire that caused $10,000 in damage. Replaced them with Michelins and never had a problem in the six years that followed..
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So far for me, 22 months, 18,000 miles on my Goodyear tires, no issues and they are all wearing great.
I'll keep an even closer eye as I rack up the mileage and time.....
Did you notice anything with your Goodyears that now you would say might have been a warning?
__________________
Finally!!!
Shawn and Donna
2014 Entegra Aspire 42RBQ, 2016 Mazda MX5 Miata
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06-18-2015, 09:13 PM
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#51
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Milford, Michigan
Posts: 1,115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mel s
jestal
Will your "full time tire air pressure system" warn you before a sidewall blows out?
Wondering
Mel
'96 Safari
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No need to wonder....... Yes it probably will. Nothing is certain but given the failure modes of tires a TPM is a powerful tool.
I do not see anything that indicates a possibility of a "sidewall blowout" without some "help" i.e. hitting something sharp or hitting a curb or overheating due to excessive flexing which is the obvious likely cause. Sidewalls do not blow out for no reason.
In my experience sidewalls typically would blow out due to excessive flexing from running low on air or being overloaded. The TPM will warn me of low air pressure, yes. It did it perfectly in the example I described. I left the overnight camp with good air pressure and while driving got the alarm the air pressure was getting low which would have definitely would have lead to a "sidewall blowout". Small cracks and checking do not let air out nor cause sidewall blowout. I checked the air pressure before driving away so the only warning I got was from the TPM. The intermittent air leak at the valve stem only occurred while driving which flexed the stem at the grommet that was bad. It did not leak while sitting.
Not to say I will never have a blowout but the operating TPM will certainly give me a good warning of the possibility.
I have seen a case where a nail pierced the tread and was so long it also pierced the sidewall from rubbing thru the sidewall from the inside. Air began to leak thru the inner tire lining and cording and formed a bubble or blister on the sidewall. That blister eventually popped and the tire went flat but the sidewall did not catastrophically "blow out". Even in this case a functioning TPM would warn.
There is a reason TPM's have become standard equipment on cars....because they warn before catastrophic failures occur. I want one functional and reliable on my coach for the same reason.
Soapy water quickly shows me that even the worst sidewall cracks do not leak air without some other aggravation.
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06-18-2015, 09:17 PM
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#52
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jestal
Yes it definitely will.
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No it won't! There is no way a system can warn you of a blowout unless there's a leak beforehand. Even the TPMS manufacturers say that.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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06-18-2015, 09:56 PM
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#53
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midland, Texas
Posts: 606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D
No it won't! There is no way a system can warn you of a blowout unless there's a leak beforehand. Even the TPMS manufacturers say that.
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Mine warned me that I had a blowout... about 1 or 2 seconds after the big explosion and the sudden pull to the left By then I already knew I had a problem.
__________________
Terry & Gloria O, Midland, Texas
2020 Entegra Aspire 44W, 2022 F250 King Ranch
2012 Entegra Aspire 42RBQ Traded
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06-19-2015, 06:22 AM
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#54
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Milford, Michigan
Posts: 1,115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D
No it won't! There is no way a system can warn you of a blowout unless there's a leak beforehand. Even the TPMS manufacturers say that.
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The question was would it warn you of a "sidewall blowout". Since the overwhelming reason for a sidewall failure is lack of adequate inflation I am confident the TPM can warn me of that.
There is certainly no guarantee that any tire pressure system can always warn of an impending problem....like running over a metal shard, pothole or something......the manufacturers are always going to say that it can not always warn but in most cases the systems should help significantly. In my case I am confident the system prevented a blowout or sidewall failure.
Common sense should make you realize that a TPM system is just another tool and another piece of information which can prevent lots of problems if used intelligently. A oil pressure and water temp gauge cannot prevent overheats or engine failure but both can give substantial clues as to an impending failure much the same way the TPM can. It taught me that the occasional slow leak in that tire started to worsen sidnificantly when I was rolling and not parked. And, it drew my attention to that tire ahead of time so I was monitoring it carefully.
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06-19-2015, 06:28 AM
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#55
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Milford, Michigan
Posts: 1,115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam60
How thick are the sidewalls on our tires? When is a crack dangerous regardless of date codes?
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Since no one wanted to touch this I will opine that a crack in the rubber is getting pretty serious when you can see the tire cording at the bottom of the crack. Also watch for 3/4 to 1 inch long continuous cracks or so many cracks they start to knit together. The random small surface cracks indicate the rubber is getting more friable and more likely to be easily damaged from impact and will be much more susceptible to underinflation flexing damage.
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06-19-2015, 07:40 AM
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jestal
Since no one wanted to touch this I will opine that a crack in the rubber is getting pretty serious when you can see the tire cording at the bottom of the crack. Also watch for 3/4 to 1 inch long continuous cracks or so many cracks they start to knit together. The random small surface cracks indicate the rubber is getting more friable and more likely to be easily damaged from impact and will be much more susceptible to underinflation flexing damage.
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1.) Personaly I don't think multiple tiny sidewall cracks that do not expose the cords are either safe or acceptable.
2.) I can't see how a TPS system can possibly warn of a potential side wall blowout.
I am not a "safety fanatic, or a "tire expert", but the thousands of tiny sidewall cracks that were developing in my 6 3 1/2 year old Michelin tires scared the bejeebers out of me.... and since Michelin Customer Care chose to replace those 6 tires it is apparent that the sidewall cracks also scared the bejebers out of Michelin.
Mel
'96 Safari
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