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Old 07-13-2019, 10:40 AM   #113
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Tow Brake Laws For States And Provinces:


Special Requirements States and Provinces:

Oregon - Independent braking system not required, but combination of vehicles must be able to stop within legal limits.
Wyoming, Kansas - Every combination of vehicles must have a service braking system that will stop the combination of vehicles within 40 feet from an initial speed of 20 mph on a level, dry, smooth, hard surface.
Missouri -
Independent braking system not required except on trailers coupled by a 5th-wheel and kingpin.
Kentucky - Kentucky law does not specifically require brakes on many passenger car trailers, regardless of weight. However, vehicles singular or in combination must be able to stop within distance specified by statute.
New Jersey - Every trailer and semitrailer must have brakes that can be automatically applied upon break-away from the towing vehicle, and means shall be provided to stop and hold the vehicle for an adequate period of time.
In any combination of motor vehicles, means shall be provided for applying the trailer or semitrailer brakes in approximate synchronism with the brakes on the towing vehicles and creating the required braking effort on the wheels of the rear-most vehicle at the fastest rate, or means shall be provided for applying the braking effort first on the rearmost vehicle equipped with brakes.
Brakes are required on all wheels for all trailers or semitrailers with a gross weight over 3,000 pounds; provided. The gross weight of any such trailer without brakes shall not exceed 40% of the gross weight of the towing vehicle.
Delaware -
Every motor vehicle when operated on a highway shall be equipped with brakes adequate to control the movement, and to stop and hold such vehicle and any trailer attached thereto, including 2 separate means of applying the brakes.
Newfoundland -
The service brakes on a combination of vehicles must be capable of bringing the motor vehicle and a fully loaded combination of vehicles to a standstill at 30 km/h under the following conditions: (1) in a straight line; (2) within 10 meters from the point at which the brakes were applied; and (3) on a dry and level paved surface made of either asphalt or concrete that is free from.

*No matter where your vehicle is registered, you must obey the towing laws in a given State or Province that you travel through. Please refer to our map showing the requirements for North America. Weights listed are the maximum weight a trailer or towed vehicle can weigh before a supplemental brake is required.

A star in the State or Province means a break away system is also required with the same vehicle weight requirements as the brake
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:04 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by RVPioneer View Post
Can you provided us with documentation to support your statement about being legal wherever you go?

Some have suggested that towing regulations and enforcement are established by each state and that there is no reciprocity for non-compliance.

At this point I just don’t know who to believe without documentation.
Can you provide documentation that you have never broken any traffic law too? Just for the past 20 years will do fine.
Get real.
Just who appointed you as traffic enforcement czar? Maybe worry more about your own driving?
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:15 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by 757driver View Post
For someone that argues a need to see a fatality from a runaway towed car before he would consider putting on a braking system we are well beyond manners.
Well, you probably aught to stay off the roads then. As there is a pretty high percentage of toads and trailers of all sizes and weights that don't meet your high standards.
And yet you have beaten the odds of certain death and are still alive and well to post condescending remarks towards those who follow the laws, but just don't agree with you.
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:24 AM   #116
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Fair warning to knock off the personal comments / attacks. Our Community Rules do not permit it.
Thank you
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:26 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by awol50 View Post
Can you provide documentation that you have never broken any traffic law too? Just for the past 20 years will do fine.
Get real.
Just who appointed you as traffic enforcement czar? Maybe worry more about your own driving?

I asked you to provide documentation or evidence to verify a statement that you made.

Can you provide that information?
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:49 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by RVPioneer View Post
I asked you to provide documentation or evidence to verify a statement that you made.

Can you provide that information?
Read the state laws.
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Old 07-13-2019, 11:51 AM   #119
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Brian, I’m not going to address how you manage your setup. If you’re comfortable with things as-is, there isn’t anything anyone can say that will change your mind.

Rather than take an adversarial position with you, I’ll simply share my experiences over our short time RVing. Since 2011 we’ve owned a 40’ Tiffin Phaeton, an enormous 5th Wheel, and a 45’ Entegra Aspire. Overall, I’d estimate we’ve driven approximately 75,000 miles combined.

On day one, I didn’t know what I didn’t know. While I held a CDL, and had operated heavy equipment of one kind or another for the majority of my adult life. RVing was a different world altogether.

We set out on our first long trip to California towing a Jeep Wrangler JKU. Due to unforeseen circumstances the braking system was uninstalled, and in the basement of the coach. At the time, I knew a toad brake system was a good thing, but really felt we weren’t sacrificing much because of the abilities of the coach. Perhaps a bit overconfident in the coach.

We completed the majority of our trip largely without incident. We did have a couple of situations where the maximum braking ability of the coach was tested.

My eyes began to open a little.

Once we returned home, on a routine trip to a service facility, I had a true panic stop and needed every bit of braking available.

Eyes opening more.

After that first big trip, I installed the braking system on the Jeep. We took the coach and Jeep into the Texas Hill Country. On our first high energy stop, I immediately noticed a big improvement.

Eyes wide open now.

Since that time, we’ve used one form of braking system or another on each of the three subsequent toad vehicles.

Our current coach is much improved over our first coach in terms of stopping ability. 2-Stage Engine Brake and 2 extra tires with brakes versus Exhaust brake and non-tag coach.

One thing that laws and regulations fail to address, is the bias of toad weight versus coach weight. The GCWR is the closest metric, and is likely adequate. However, as an anecdotal comparison our Phaeton weighed 32,000# dry, and pulled a 5600# truck. Cocktail napkin math indicates the toad was approximately 17.5% of the coach weight. Our current setup is a 6000# truck pulled by a 43000# coach, or approximately 13.9% of the coach weight.

In short, I feel that beyond the mechanical improvements of the Aspire versus the Phaeton, the toad represents a smaller fraction of the coach weight. In our case bigger is better because the coach has a design GCWR of 64,000#, which we are well within.

In smaller coaches, the toad pushes the GCWR limit, and represents a much bigger percentage of the total coach weight. In short, a single panic stop may be possible, but subsequent stops will be questionable. There is very little excess engineering capabilities left over.

My opinion is that laws establish a minimum requirement but frequently fail to define my minimum.

Due to our experiences in some very extreme circumstances from blizzards to 12% grades, my minimum equipment includes the very best possible options available at the time.

For example, we originally had a Blue Ox towbar. One day, I discovered it was coming apart I sought out the highest rated, strongest tow bar on the market. I recently changed our toad wiring as the original wiring was getting a little wonky.

In short, I prefer to use good stuff, complete, and installed in accordance with manufacturer instructions, simply in the hope that I’m building in the largest reasonable safety margin, while still moving down the road.

I consider this to be tangible insurance against that greatly infrequent occasion where the entire system is stressed beyond typical demands, requiring every bit of excess capabilities to safely stop.

While this topic has certainly grown legs, and some comments are a bit surprising, I want to mention that there isn’t a single member posting that would hope for anything except for safe travels to you and your family.

Best Regards,

-Matt
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Old 07-13-2019, 12:00 PM   #120
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easy to confuse trailer brake Laws with toad brake requirements .. well not that easy one is a trailer and one is a car being towed …
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Old 07-13-2019, 12:10 PM   #121
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Nice post Matt..... and very true.

I initially didnt bother with a toad braking system (for a Honda CR-V) on my first coach, a tag axle Dynasty 40 footer. Had a true panic stop on our first big trip when the person in a car right in front of me decided to slam on the brakes and slide to a stop just this side of an intersection at the first nanosecond of a light change from yellow to green. It was so "early", I assumed he/she would go on through. Wrong. I could "feel" that Honda pushing my coach X number of feet further up to the bumper of the car. It was VERY close to me rear ending him. You can say it was my imagination, but I am quite sure I could feel that Honda pushing me closer than I wanted to be. I put enough miles on me as a semi-truck driver with adequate braking to all axles and wheels, that I could "feel/sense" the difference.

As soon as we got to Ocala, I made arrangements to have a tech install an Air Force One toad braking system and had it installed in a field at the Monaco pre-rally before the FMCA rally in Perry GA many years ago. I have had few panic stops since then, but I now never "sense" my Honda pushing my coach forward.... I want the toad to be doing its share to bring all of us to a halt if that is ever required again. Would not drive a coach with it.

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Old 07-13-2019, 12:19 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt D View Post
Brian, I’m not going to address how you manage your setup. If you’re comfortable with things as-is, there isn’t anything anyone can say that will change your mind.


In smaller coaches, the toad pushes the GCWR limit, and represents a much bigger percentage of the total coach weight. In short, a single panic stop may be possible, but subsequent stops will be questionable. There is very little excess engineering capabilities left over.


I consider this to be tangible insurance against that greatly infrequent occasion where the entire system is stressed beyond typical demands, requiring every bit of excess capabilities to safely stop.

While this topic has certainly grown legs, and some comments are a bit surprising, I want to mention that there isn’t a single member posting that would hope for anything except for safe travels to you and your family.

Best Regards,

-Matt
I agree with Matt as I did not even consider having a toad without a braking system installed. I am not overly impressed with my coach brakes but then I was never impressed with most larger vehicles I drove and there braking ability. I am towing at close to maximum GCWR so need to be safe for what happens.

I do drive what I consider defensively and the only quick stop I have had to make was a traffic light I did not anticipate turning so quickly, my own fault.

The difference with the toad stopping on its own power likely kept me out of an intersection.

Everyone drive safe and enjoy your journey.

Terry
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:07 PM   #123
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Mat, perfect - Totally agree - thanks
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:08 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awol50 View Post
I'm legal wherever I go. Why the obsession with "legal". You never drive over speed limits? Complete stops at all stop signs? Etc.
As far as I can tell, nobody has ever pointed out even one fatality caused by an under 3000# toad separation accident from a toad with no aux brakes....ever.
What difference does it make if it's under 3000#?

If a unoccupied 2700# vehicle is about to hit you head on, are you going to think, "Looks like it's less than 3000#, this isn't going to hurt much"
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:17 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Mojim View Post
easy to confuse trailer brake Laws with toad brake requirements .. well not that easy one is a trailer and one is a car being towed …



Please refer to our map showing the requirements for North America. Weights listed are the maximum weight a trailer or towed vehicle can weigh before a supplemental brake is required.
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:35 PM   #126
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I'll share a sad local story from last month. A 19 year old "kid" was just charge with vehicular homicide, because he "didn't know any better". The lives he has ruined including his own becasue he ignored the law. He killed an 8 year old girl because he lost control of his vehicle. Makes no difference if your driving it or towing it illegally, control is control. https://www.fox4now.com/news/local-n...-in-cape-coral
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