Progressive HW50C install - step by step

[Gary.Jones]

If you dont have the Progressive manual (or download it) and are not comfortable with this DIY project, then pay someone else to do it for you.

I just completed the installation of what PJ and Entegra Coach constantly say is the most important after purchase equipment that all their owners should make…. An after-market energy management system. In my case, I have chosen the Progressive EMS HW50C which I believe is the best EMS system to install in a coach. There are systems that can be carried in the basement and then inserted between the power pole and the coach AC shore power line, but to me, what makes the most sense is to permanently install the EMS in a safe place in the basement (not subject to theft or failure in the elements), put the digital readout in a place where it can be easily seen outside, and be done with it: No extra steps or risks. So, I purchased another HW50C for the new Cornerstone. I installed one in my 2015 Anthem and could not have been happier with how it performed and how it was installed. Although I bought the coach 2 months ago, I still had not installed the HW50C because it was simply too hot outside this summer, but the trip to Spearfish ECOA rally convinced me that I simply had to bear the heat and humidity and get it done. Since this is a modification that should be done by every coach owner or professional installer, I thought I would document it fairly completely in an effort to help others that may come behind me.

This is a job that can easily be done by any owner who has any ability to deal with electricity and basic DIY jobs on coaches. I would advise the purchase of a basic DVM (digital or analog volt ohm meter), sturdy side cutters (“dykes/diaqs/diagonal cutters), very strong wire terminal crimpers, and one of the hardest parts of this modification, #6 gauge terminal lugs. You must use #6 gauge wire for all new wiring. You have two 120 VAC, 50 amp “legs” in your power line, and electrical codes indicate that 6-gauge wiring be used for all wiring for ~ 50 amp circuits. Nothing smaller than 6 gauge wire and terminals is appropriate. I found this wire, in a single big flexible cable, was only available at an electrical supply warehouse. It is no longer carried by Lowes or HD. What they have now is individual 6-gauge wires of each color (OK), but I wanted one cable with four 6-gauge stranded conductors (red, black, white, green). I bought 3’ of that flexible cable, similar to the flexible cable in our stock power cord, at an electrical supply house (~$3 per foot)(didn’t need it all).

To get started, you must first remove all shore power sources to your coach. First, disconnect the main power cord from any power pole. Secondly, slide out the generator, and either kill the red switch that disables the generator from starting, or remove the fuse on the main control panel. Now the coach should be completely without power except from the inverters that may be running (you can kill those too).

First, you need to remove the power shore cord reel out of its bay. The first picture shows it installed by the factory. Removal of the reel involves simply removing the 4 screws through the basement floor. However, the first problem encountered was that there are two cables going to the reel…. The big one is the power cable from the transfer switch which attached to the reel, but there is a second 12 volt DC cable that attaches to the aft side of the reel and powers the reel in and out. I detached the whole “shield” for that 12 volt side (and the chain drive) but found that I could not see how to disconnect the 12 volt wires from the motor drive. I tried several strategies but never could figure it out. So….. I cut the 12 volt wires (red and black on staggered cuts (cuts not across from each other)) and planned to use red butt-connectors crimped onto the cable ends to reconnect the 12 volt supply when done.

I laid the reel on its side on a plastic bucket outside the compartment and tested the various terminals from the main power feed (on the left side) (ground to hot) to ensure that there was no voltage present. When convinced there was none, I removed the four main power cables. Pay very close attention as to how these cables are attached to the bolts and I took a picture of their configuration (as the ground goes to a terminal that you probably would not attach without the picture). Picture shows the connections and orientation. Also, pay attention to how much each wire is exposed from the main cable jacket and how the terminal ends are crimped onto the wires. Actually, finding 6-gauge cable terminals were one of the biggest problems in this installation. Home Depot doesn’t carry them, and we have three nearby Lowes and they had a total of 4 connectors across those three stores. I made a mistake on stripping insulation so I had to purchase lugs from Amazon. I redid the lugs shown so that there was no bare copper wire outside of the lugs. I got 10 of them (copper) for the same price that Lowes wanted for 2 copper lugs. You need to order or find them before you get started with the whole project. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I installed my HW50C without any concern about being able to bypass it or replace the cable with another cable while on the road. There has been another install thread shown on here which permits that, but I am assuming that I am not going to need to replace or bypass the reel, so avoided all the complications of accounting for those possibilities. I installed the HW50C in series with the main power cable and “in front” of the transfer switch. In this configuration, I am protecting the coach power system from the park power pole, not from my own generator. This makes the job much simpler and yet deals with the main problems (over-voltage, under-voltage, surges, etc). So, I simply detached the transfer switch cable from the reel and inserted it into the “coach side” of the HW-50C EMS (after cutting off the wire lugs). The new cable I purchased then ran from the “commercial” power side of the EMS to the power reel main terminals. This could not be simpler wiring. (I have added a hand drawn schematic of this very simple circuit).

Now, the manual sent by Progressive Industries is confusing and inaccurate in several respects. There are two current and frequency sensing coils in the HW50C and it is important to get them on the right color power leads and also oriented appropriately. The owner’s manual says one of these sensors has a green label, but it doesn’t. It used to 3 years ago, but it doesn’t anymore. Also, the manual says which way to point an arrow inscribed on the coil. There is no arrow that points the right way. So, a call to Progressive CS informed the following: The coils have a very obviously “glued side” and the glued side of the sensor goes in the direction of the “Contactor” (the large relay switch in the center)(glued side faces the contactor). Also, if you look at the HW-50C from the top, you will see an orange plastic terminal strip (oriented up and down) near the top middle of the contactor. One of the sensors is connected to the black and white wires which are at the top of the orange connector (closest to your eyes when looking at it). That sensor connected at the top is the one which is supposed to have a green label (also seen in the manual but no longer actually green on the unit received). I actually made up labels with my label maker to show which was the “green label” sensor and the proper orientation (you can see my own labels).

The black wire from the transfer switch will have the “green” sensor (which has no green label anymore) (glued side toward contactor) and inserted into terminal T1. The white wire from the transfer switch has no sensor and goes into T2. The red wire contains the white label sensor (the one connected lower in the orange terminal strip)(oriented correctly) and attached to T3. You have to attach a green terminal lug to the green wire (it is in the parts bag) and it connects to a green screw and nut contained in the parts bag and attaches to the vertical wall near the "T" side of the contactor.

My new 4 wire 6 gauge cable is connected to the Shore power side of the HW50C (the side labeled Line 1, L2, and L3). Strip just enough insulation from wire and insert the black wire into L1, the white to L2, and the red to L3. Again, the green wire needs to have a lug crimped on and attached to the wall of the box with the green screw and nut provided.

Now, probably the most complicated part of the whole job was to find appropriate 6 gauge terminal lugs. I bought mine from Amazon but tried to get them locally. Probably readily available from an electrical supply company. They need to be solid copper and very sturdy, equivalent to the ones you cut off of the transfer switch cable initially. That is important as they carry a lot of current…. No thin and flimsy terminals more commonly available). Don’t use anything smaller or less sturdy. Here is the link to the ones I bought from Amazon (below). Home Depot does not have them. Be sure they are for 6 gauge wire. It takes some care to cut the wires the right length so they are oriented correctly under the shield. Pay close attention to how the wires were attached and oriented initially and get them back the same way. Crimping on the terminals was a chore as the terminals are larger than most crimping tools can handle. The crimp must solidly hold the copper wire. I had a set of “channel locks” with long handles and the jaws came to a fairly small area at the end so that a lot of pressure could be applied to crimp the terminals, and they worked well. How you are going to crimp needs to be something you deal with early. You could crimp with a vise and potentially a vice and a punch tool to crimp, and you would just have to crimp on the terminals before attaching to the HW50C; that end does not need crimping.

Reinstall the cover and make sure that you attach the wires the way shown in the first picture. It’s a little different than you would think. Try to orient the wires the same way so the main cable comes through the shield and the shield does not touch any of the wires or terminal lugs. That is VERY IMPORTANT. SHOCK HAZZARD IF DONE WRONG. Also, use crimped butt-connectors to reattach the two 12 volt power wires from the switch. I electrical taped over the butt connectors and then threaded the wires back into the black plastic cable sheath that held them initially.

Before re-installing the cord reel, screw at least one self-piercing screw into the basement floor to hold the HW50C steady, plug in the telephone type cable to the remote display in the HW50C and also the remote display. I mount my remote display right under the reel control “In – Out” switch . I did that by cutting off the plastic mounting ear on the right side of the display (as the display is slightly too wide for where I am going to mount it). Push the display hard against the vertical wall to the right and then use a piercing screw to screw it into the fuzzy covering and the plywood box that holds the reel control through the left side mounting tab. Makes a solid anchor system and very convenient to see when you turn on the circuit breaker at the power pole. Try the 12 volt control to make sure it works. You can also test the whole system at this point by briefly turning the power back on or plugging the reel into the power pole and the EMS HW-50C and remote display should begin showing you all the information that it should show you when finalized. If all looks good, disconnect the power again and then re-install the hose clamp, and re-mount the power cord reel, tighten down, clean up, turn on the Onan generator switch again, and you are done.

I use the default time delay (15 seconds). That give me 15 seconds to get from the power pole to the remote display and I can hear the HW50C "conclude" that there is no problem and close its contactor to permit power to the coach and simultaneously start showing voltage, frequency, amperage, error codes if any. If there are serious errors, the HW50C will not apply power to the coach and will show the error code indicating why the HW50C will not permit power to the coach. Any error on the display is probably serious and needs to be resolved before power should be permitted to reach the coach. Believe the HW50C ... if it says there is a problem, there IS!

Of course, if you are not confident that you can do this install, pay someone who is competent to do the installation for you. You don’t want to take needless risks. In my opinion, there is virtually no piece of equipment more important on any motorcoach than an electrical management system. I have no financial connection to Progressive Industries, but in my opinion, there is no better EMS systems on the market than either their permanent or portable EMS systems. Good luck!

Gary

[Gary.Jones]

Final picture showing installation of digital read out on cord power switch box.

Gary

[LWBAZ]

Nice work, Gary!

One minor point with regard to your statement that “You must use #6 gauge wire for all new wiring.” If you look at the labeling on the 50 amp cable on the cord reel, you’ll see that it has three 6 gauge conductors (a black hot wire, a red hot wire, and a white neutral wire) and one 8 gauge conductor (a green ground wire).

I’m not sure why the 50 amp cables are made that way, but virtually all of them I’ve seen have that configuration. That said, there is certainly no disadvantage to using 6 gauge all around.

[Gary.Jones]

Larry

I'm sure that you are right. The "hots" are carrying all the potential amps against the white neutral. I had not noticed that the green wire was 8 gauge and I would have to look at my new 6 gauge (4 wire) cable to see if that is true with it also. The green wire was slightly more pliable now that I think about it. I just asked for 6 gauge 4 wire cable and assumed that was what I got but would have to look to see if the green ground wire is also 8 gauge. Doesnt really matter.... 6 gauge would simply be more stout.

Gary

[buddy110]

I did it on my Insignia. It was not easy to manipulate the 6ga wire. I have yet to buy one for the Anthem. I may just get the plug and play portable one. I'm getting lazier in my old age.....

[Johnontheroad]

When I installed one on my Monaco I also mounted a display inside so I can monitor power usage from inside. very useful when you are on a 30A circuit (like I am now). Progressive makes a switch that allows you to switch between two displays.

[brobox]

Gary, how long did all of this take?

[Gary.Jones]

Chuck

It could be done in 3-4 hours, in a morning. It took time to figure out a good crimping method and to find the darn 6 gauge terminal lugs, but the dismantling and cable running and re-installation easily in ~ 4 hours and I wasted a lot of time trying to get the 12 volt wires off the motor.... if I had decided to cut the wires before removing all the screws and dealing with that dead-end solution, then a lot easier. Cutting and splicing was much quicker. Mounting the digital display right in the power/AquaHot bay was also a quick fix. Some do mount the display in the half-bath, but I don't see how that effort is worth it.... if the power goes out due to a fault or loss of commercial power, I am happy to walk out to the power bay to figure out what the problem is. What is important to me is once I plug into the power pole and throw the circuit breaker, I want to be able to immediately watch the digital display from the power bay as it cycles through all the information and possible error codes. I don't have to run inside to see what the situation is.

Gary

[LWBAZ]

A couple of additional comments, for what they may be worth:

1) Regarding the two wires that run between the cord reel motor and the switch that activates the motor, on our 2018 CS the wires from the switch were only a couple of feet long and were connected to their corresponding wires from the cord reel with butt connectors. Refer to the first photo below in which you can see a blue wire and a white wire with blue stripe coming from the switch, and a red wire and a black wire coming from the cord reel motor.

I used a pair of vise grips to deform the ends of the butt connectors, enough so that I was able to pull the wire ends out of the two butt connectors. Then when was ready to reinstall the cord reel and reconnect the wires, I used insulated male/female spade connectors like those in the second photo below – just in case I ever need or want to remove the cord reel again.

2) Regarding cutting off the lugs on cord reel end of the 50 amp cable that runs from the cord reel to the transfer switch, I may be missing something but I don’t see any reason to do that. Seems like it would be easier to just disconnect the end of that cable that’s attached to the transfer switch, run that end of that cable into input side of the Progressive Industries EMS device, then run a new length of 50 amp cable from the output side of the P.I. EMS to the transfer switch. No new lugs and no crimping needed. Like I said, I may be missing something, but that’s the way I did it when I did essentially the same installation (the difference being a portable P.I. unit in my case versus a hard-wired P.I. unit in Gary’s case).

Gary, please be assured I don’t mean to imply any criticism of your installation or approach. Just throwing these thoughts out there for what they may be worth to others taking on the same or similar project.

[Searching_Ut]

For those using this how useful do you actually find it for measuring line current. Mins seems to be pretty accurate when compared to a multimeter when measuring voltage but it’s way off for current measurements, reading way high, especially on line 2. As a result, I can’t really use mine to help with choices as to what I can run when on 30 amp circuits.

[deltam]

I have the portable version that is plugged in outside. I look at the display often when walking our dog. Ours is 50 amps too. Surprised at how little amps our camper draws.

The display/error code sheet is important to copy and put away somewhere.

I also have a very thick wire cable lock on the thing so it doesn't get legs and walk away.

[Gary.Jones]

Searching Ut.... My HW-50C appears to be right on the money given what I expect and know of my main sources of current draw. The big draws on my Cornerstone and my Anthem coach are the AC units. Each one drew about 14 amps at 120 VAC. Two were on one leg of the power line (e.g. ~ 30 amps) and one AC unit was on the other along with the AC heating element of the AquaHot so again, roughly 24-30 amps total on the second leg. My amperage readouts have always squared with what I know to be running. Without any of the big loads "on" I am generally getting only 2 - 4 amp draws on each leg, and often, nothing on each leg. I have never doubted the amperage readings of my HW-50C.

Also, you can't measure amperage with a VOM or DVM as a meter either needs to be inserted in series with the loads (which virtually no VOM or DVM is capable of doing at these currents) or you have to measure it inductively with a clamp on ammeter.

You sure your sensing coils are oriented correctly? If not, you will get crazy readings.

Gary

[Gary.Jones]

Larry

The way each of us wired our HW50C is fundamentally different and I would not be surprised to know that you used existing wires differently than I did. The way that I wired in the HW50C was that I left the wire from the transfer switch to the power reel connected to the transfer switch. The other end of that cable has the four lugs that attach to the power reel. I cut off the 6 gauge lugs at that end because that wire once removed from the power reel, goes into the HW-50C on the "coach load side" of the HW-50C. There is no need for wire lugs going into the HW50C as the wires simply are inserted into clamps that clamp down onto the bare stranded wire. The lugs have to "go". Now, if I went to the effort and bother to remove the front of the transfer switch and messing with the wiring of the transfer switch, and take that cable off the transfer switch, I could have used it to run from the Shore power side of the HW50C to the power reel. I could have avoided re-attaching the new lugs to the wire if I wired it that way. I didn't. I didn't want to screw around with the transfer switch and its wiring. I wanted to leave it well enough alone. I didn't think it would be a big deal finding 6 gauge terminal lugs at the big box supply stores, and it turned out to be a surprisingly difficult search. I guess we just tackled the task with a different approach.

On a different issue.... I probably should have used automotive type push together lugs (male and female) to make the splice in the 12 VDC wires to the motor. Again, I am not anticipating ever having to take this apart again (unless the reel fails completely) so I went for a more permanent junction (i.e. butt connectors) but the push-ons would have worked fine also. Smaller red butt connectors were all that were needed and were easier to crimp.

No problem pointed out differences in approach... makes it easier for those that follow to think through their options.

Gary

[Gary.Jones]

I fear my memory is starting to go...... the Scotch elecctrical tape that you want to buy, and in my opinion is the best made (for its adhesiveness and "stretch") is not Scotch 22 but is actually "Scotch 33". Sorry for the mistake.... Current versions are called Scotch 33+ I think. Great stuff. If you use new tape and dont finger print it all over the sticky side, it will adhere and stay adhered in all sorts of temperatures. That is what separates it from the cheap, no-name stuff. It stays stuck.

Gary