Propane Refill

[FL420]

Frankly I doubt, admittedly with no hard data to support my opinion on the subject, that the length of a propane delivery hose is regulated by the gub'mint. I have often found that access to the delivery pump of bulk propane suppliers is limited for large vehicles with onboard propane tanks, e.g.- motorhomes. Bulk suppliers deliver the vast majority of their product to their customers at the customers' farm, ranch, rural home or place of business. Only a small part of their business is filling 20#, 30#, 40# and maybe 100# cylinders brought to their dock in the back of the customers' pick ups.
The last time I tried to buy from a bulk supplier (Ferrellgas in Henderson, CO) was several weeks ago. I called ahead and asked if they could fill a 44' motorhome and if they had at least a 15' long hose. "Sure!" the lady said. "We do motorhomes." I asked about access to the pump. She said it was easy to drive through with no need to back up.
Well, every thing she said was true, sorta, except for the length of the hose. It was only 8' long and their many delivery trucks loaded with 100# cylinders were parked way too close to the raised loading dock where the pump was located. I could hardly get my rig into the same area code. I usually Google the nearest Tractor Supply, check access using Google Earth and call ahead to make sure they know I am coming, what I am driving and what I need. Almost all TCSs are designed so you can drive through the chain link fence at the front of the store, get your tank filled and drive straight ahead out the back gate. Once or twice I have found a TCS where the manager has spotted excess inventory in the driveway blocking the exit or access to the propane tank for a large rig. It's a good idea to check first.

[FL420]

Originally Posted by LETMGROW

It is a requirement the engine must be shut off and no one is inside the MH while the tanks are being refilled. I shut down the water heater and fridge before I get to the station then shut the tank valve off. I don't have to bleed the system after the refill this way.
Lynn

Just to add a little amplification to these procedures Lynn. I don't know if these points are legal requirements in every state but they are good, sound safety procedures in any case:
1. Shut down the engine and the generator.
2. Remove all living things, e.g.- pets from the coach.
3. Turn off all furnaces at the thermostat.
4. Turn off the gas water heater.
5. Turn off the gas absorption refrigerator.
6. Turn off the oven and any stove top burners if for some strange reason they are on.
7. Turn off the main shut off valve on the propane tank.
8. Stand clear of the tank area so that you can't be sprayed with freezing cold propane in case of a malfunction or screw up in the connection and delivery process.
A spray of vapor to some degree is common and that's why you eliminate possible ignition sources by doing steps 3-6.
If the employee is not wearing heavy gloves and a full face shield he is putting himself and your coach at risk while trying to service your coach. If for some reason an ice cold spray at high pressure hits his eyes or even his hands I can almost guarantee he will literally drop everything and become totally useless in dealing with the situation he may have caused and could have prevented.
Properly worn safety gear not only protects the employee's health it protects your coach from damage or possible destruction. Unfortunately, I have never seen someone who is supposed to be properly trained wear a face shield or even goggles while pumping propane.

[Old-Biscuit]

States set regulations for propane etc based on recommendations from NFPA "Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code,"
Also standards for location, dispensing, storage are set by the US Dept of Labor/OSHA



As with anything regulated some States are more restrictive then other States.

[FL420]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

States set regulations for propane etc based on recommendations from NFPA "Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code,"
Also standards for location, dispensing, storage are set by the US Dept of Labor/OSHA



As with anything regulated some States are more restrictive then other States.

I ran into something like this and IIRC it was in Oklahoma but I'm not sure. The employee said he was required to turn the tank valve off and to double check it if I turned it off. That's a good idea methinks. It surprised me when he told me he wasn't allowed to turn it back on when he was finished.

[OldBeaver]

Originally Posted by brobox

In my area Tractor Supply has the best price, $2.69 a gallon, U Haul the highest at $3.99 a gallon. LP is priced regionally, it is much less up north than FL.

Never, ever refill at U-Haul, unless you want to overpay. I did a survey a year ago and it seems U-Haul was $3.99 nationswide. I paid $2.19 at the RV park I was staying at in Florida.

I would strongly advise doing price checks in the area or even along your travel route. The difference in prices can be quite large. Strangely enough, RV parks seems to have some of the best prices. (not all RV parks).

[LETMGROW]

Originally Posted by FL420

I ran into something like this and IIRC it was in Oklahoma but I'm not sure. The employee said he was required to turn the tank valve off and to double check it if I turned it off. That's a good idea methinks. It surprised me when he told me he wasn't allowed to turn it back on when he was finished.

By turning the valve off the employee is assured there is nothing propane powered running in the MH. I turn it off myself before getting to the fill station and the employee always checks it.
The employee at my station won't turn the valve back on either. Might be a rule or law or just a liability concern. I expect this and know how to turn the gas back on. I relight everything I need to after I get away from the station.
I shut everything down before turning the valve off. This saves bleeding air from the lines you would have to do if you shut the valve off with appliances running.
Lynn

[Bigd9]

Great posts guys! Lots of great suggestions. The only one you missed was NO SMOKING!

[FL420]

We almost never stay in commercial campgrounds but I noticed at the Escapees Rainbow Park in Livingston, TX I believe a sign was posted that a delivery truck would make deliveries one day a week to coaches who called ahead to get on the list. It saved folks from having to drive into town. The propane price cost an extra $1.00/gallon for the convenience IIRC.

[Bigd9]

Originally Posted by gslindy

I have a 2013 Aspire and will need to refill the propane tank soon. I'd like to do it myself and am looking for any info I can get.

gslindy, You haven't responded any of these many many post. Did any of these answer your question, or were we way off base?

[FL420]

Originally Posted by LETMGROW

I shut everything down before turning the valve off. This saves bleeding air from the lines you would have to do if you shut the valve off with appliances running.
Lynn

If the valve is turned on too fast and there is air instead of propane vapor in the lines a safety valve I believe is in the regulator that could shut off the flow at the regulator because it senses a possible leak. Doing as you describe minimizes that possibility in addition to minimizing the possibility of an unanticipated ignition source occuring if a thermostat turns on a furnace, refrigerator or water heater while fueling.

[FL420]

Originally Posted by Bigd9

Great posts guys! Lots of great suggestions. The only one you missed was NO SMOKING!

You're right. It is naive to assume some idiot won't walk up within range of a fuel spray with a cigarette in his mouth. I took NO SMOKING for granted. My bad.
There is a Tire Dealer/Propane Dealer in Livingston, TX that is the most unprofessional organization I have ever witnessed. While I spent most of two days trying to get them to properly mount, demount, remount and balance my new Hankooks I also watched their propane dispensing operation.
I didn't actually see any of the obviously untrained employees dispensing propane while smoking I saw plenty of their good 'ol boy customers smoking within little more than arm's length from him while he was filling their cylinders.

[Old-Biscuit]

Originally Posted by FL420

If the valve is turned on too fast and there is air instead of propane vapor in the lines a safety valve I believe is in the regulator that could shut off the flow at the regulator because it senses a possible leak. Doing as you describe minimizes that possibility in addition to minimizing the possibility of an unanticipated ignition source occuring if a thermostat turns on a furnace, refrigerator or water heater while fueling.

Unless some one opens a line by loosing a fitting or one of the appliance gas valves fail to shut there is NO air in the LP System'
So called 'bleeding' of the system is a misnomer.
What is really going on is the LP Reg goes into 'Lockup' when system is static (no demand/no flow)

Then when a demand is placed on system the LP Reg has to establish a flow...and that flow as to mix with air so that a combustible mixture is achieved. After a period on non use this can take a little while before the propane flow is fully established and the air/fuel ratio is met at each individual appliance


To much fuel......no ignition'
To little fuel.......no ignition


As for excess propane flow
The 'Excess Flow Device' will trip and 'limit' the amount of propane that can flow---doesn't shut it completely down
On MHs with tanks the Excess Flow Device is mounted in a fitting on LP Reg
On trailers with cylinders it is part of the ACME Nut on the pigtail hoses

If Service valve is opened too quickly the Excess Flow Device will trip due to imbalance in pressure on both sides of device.
A spring loaded ball moves towards closed side when service valve is opened. Then the ball will center when pressures equalize



A gas valve still open, broken line, leaky fitting and downstream pressure doesn't equalize...Spring loaded Ball inside the Excess Flow Device remains 'closed' limiting flow of propane.


OPD Valve...MH had them long before portable cylinders had to have them
They stop the filling of liquid propane going IN the tank/cylinder
They do NOT stop propane vapor from coming out of either vessel

[ElvistheKing]

Gotta love how “in the land of the free” you can be so nannying at times (also see jaywalking).

Over here in Europe we drive up and just fill our LPG tanks ourselves at the fuel stations that sell it, walk in and pay. (There are quite a few dual fuel petrol/LPG vehicles on the road, including just about every gasser RV as it’s something like 1/2 the price of Petrol).

No “training” here, it’s not exactly rocket science.

[Old-Biscuit]

Originally Posted by ElvistheKing

Gotta love how “in the land of the free” you can be so nannying at times (also see jaywalking).

Over here in Europe we drive up and just fill our LPG tanks ourselves at the fuel stations that sell it, walk in and pay. (There are quite a few dual fuel petrol/LPG vehicles on the road, including just about every gasser RV as it’s something like 1/2 the price of Petrol).

No “training” here, it’s not exactly rocket science.

Hey we're getting there......
SharpEnergy opened the first 'autogas fill' station in New Castle DE
Not exactly RV friendly nor set up for that but........