Repairs involving tile demolition - issues?

[voltdoc]

Originally Posted by cobbersdad

Rob:

I'm a novice at aqua hot. When you refer to the zones are you addressing the ones on the "heat pump" thermostat? And, if so, is the small white thermostat above the toilet just for the temp of the circulating fluid?

Thanks. I feel like I might be getting a little bit smarter.

Stew, in the small novel I wrote (sorry!), my reference to "zones" is in regard to the thermostat(s) and my reference to "pumps" is in regard to the circulator pumps inside the Aquahot.

Sounds like you probably have the previous setup with the Dometic thermostat (I think its white?) - the newer coaches have a black thermostat made by RVP that is for the three heat pumps/AC units as well as the 3 Aquahot zones. I'm not familiar with your setup so I'm not sure if your thermostat can control both.

Our coach has just the RVP thermostat plus one more small white thermostat in the basement which is for the radiator there.

If your Dometic thermostat can only control the AC/Heat pumps, then it is a good bet the small white thermostat is for one of the Aquahot zones, perhaps the under tile heat. Do you have any other of those small white thermostats? Maybe one in the basement? I think this has been discussed before on the forums, but a quick look didn't get me a solid answer.

Probably a talk with one of the service guys could clear that up for you pretty quick. If I can corner someone while we are back in Middlebury I'll ask, otherwise, if you find out let me know, I'm curious.

[voltdoc]

Originally Posted by Us3Here

We didn't notice any problems until we used the Aqua-hot system for heat, later in the year. It was a cool evening and we fired up the system and turned on the thermostats. The coach heated up nicely but shut down over the night. The next morning I looked at the reservoir in the basement for the Aqua-Hot and it was empty. I refilled it with the boiler antifreeze provided by the dealer and the unit started up, giving us heat.

Throughout the year, as we used the Aqua-Hot for warmth, the system would suck the reservoir dry and shut down, and I’ll refill it and the unit again would start, but I couldn’t locate any fluid on the ground beneath us.
This came to a head when we attempted to use the floor heat for the first time, from the thermostat in the small bathroom. The inside of the coach quickly because foggy and humid and we shut the system down and dried EVERY piece of furniture, wood and walls…Everything..

When we brought the coach back to Middlebury for some warranty work, they quickly located the problem, a staple through the PEX in the front, done during installation.

Entegra fixed the leak and filled the system. Working as it’s supposed to now.

Regarding Kaylee, my wife wanted an Irish name, I didn’t know it had a Gaelic translation. Does it mean something?


Regards

Wow, guess we should consider ourselves lucky then, we didn't have the antifreeze making such a mess of things! Thanks for the info.

Ceilidh or Ceili (both pronounced Kay-lee) means party or gathering.

[voltdoc]

Originally Posted by KSCRUDE

This absolute blockage is very strange. Must have a severe kink, or maybe a foreign object in the line. Maybe a snake camera could help in you troubleshooting. Good luck, we are all pulling for you.

Thanks for the well wishes! Will post status back in a few weeks after the trip back to Middlebury for the repair.

Yep, is most likely a kink or maybe pinched. According to Entegra they have never seen a blockage from debris. It will be interesting to find out what happened.

After I isolated the blocked loop I snaked it from both ends so we sort of know where the blockage is (10' from one end, 17.5' from the other). I also applied about 100PSI of air pressure and absolutely nothing came out the other end. BTW, the pipes inside the floor are 100% PEX.

I have a snake camera, but it is too fat to fit inside the 1/2" pipe and only about 5' long. Not sure that would help much anyway as the repair is still going to require require opening up the floor.

In my most recent conversation with Entegra, they are planning to use the snake measurements on a coach in production to pinpoint the location of the blockage. That should minimize the number of tiles that need to be removed and if we're lucky (haven't been so far! ), it will be in an area accessible from below and no tiles or subfloor will need be removed.

[Marcosdad]

Originally Posted by voltdoc

Stew, in the small novel I wrote (sorry!), my reference to "zones" is in regard to the thermostat(s) and my reference to "pumps" is in regard to the circulator pumps inside the Aquahot.

Sounds like you probably have the previous setup with the Dometic thermostat (I think its white?) - the newer coaches have a black thermostat made by RVP that is for the three heat pumps/AC units as well as the 3 Aquahot zones. I'm not familiar with your setup so I'm not sure if your thermostat can control both.

Our coach has just the RVP thermostat plus one more small white thermostat in the basement which is for the radiator there.

If your Dometic thermostat can only control the AC/Heat pumps, then it is a good bet the small white thermostat is for one of the Aquahot zones, perhaps the under tile heat. Do you have any other of those small white thermostats? Maybe one in the basement? I think this has been discussed before on the forums, but a quick look didn't get me a solid answer.

Probably a talk with one of the service guys could clear that up for you pretty quick. If I can corner someone while we are back in Middlebury I'll ask, otherwise, if you find out let me know, I'm curious.

Rob:

As I recall (its BACK in the shop) our heat pump thermostat has an "AQUA" setting for zone 2. Small white sliding thermostat above toilet and in the basement by the water filter.

[Shardan1]

Originally Posted by voltdoc

tnrzryd
In my most recent conversation with Entegra, they are planning to use the snake measurements on a coach in production to pinpoint the location of the blockage. That should minimize the number of tiles that need to be removed and if we're lucky (haven't been so far! ), it will be in an area accessible from below and no tiles or subfloor will need be removed.

I'd be concerned about finding the blockage and only cutting out that section and burying a fitting under the floor. A place for a leak to start down the road. I'd be surprised if they try to do that, but I'd think it'd be almost impossible to change out the entire length of pipe in that portion of the coach.

[voltdoc]

Originally Posted by Shardan1

I'd be concerned about finding the blockage and only cutting out that section and burying a fitting under the floor. A place for a leak to start down the road. I'd be surprised if they try to do that, but I'd think it'd be almost impossible to change out the entire length of pipe in that portion of the coach.

Thanks, yeah I am concerned about that too. IF the kink/blockage can be reached via surgery from under the floor they will probably put in an access panel. If not, good point, don't know if the plan is to replace the entire section of pipe or if that's even possible. I need to have further discussion about that with Entegra.

While the in-floor piping is supposedly 100% PEX, where the PEX exits/enters the floor (at several points) and goes around obstructions (like the slide mechanism) or makes tight turns, it is joined with 3/4" ID rubber hose (looks like auto heater hose) and in some cases formed bends made of rubber hose. The rubber hoses slip over the outside of the PEX and are held fast by a single hose clamp.

While that seems to be OK for areas where the clamps are accessible, in my view that is unacceptable for a buried repair. I would think those fittings such as are used for the air lines on the chassis would be more reliable - I don't know, maybe there are fittings intended for this type of buried repair in a PEX loop?

[hdgoldie]

Not sure if this will help but we had an almost identical situation with our coach. Wonderful heat in the bedroom and full bath, toasty warm bays, icebox front coach and floor. We had Aqua-Hot technicians on site, a local repair guy who checked flow at all but the very front pump (dash area), cabinets disassembled, boiler antifreeze everywhere....really feeling your pain. Finally, Ted from Entegra came to our coach (he was in our area of the country for another purpose and managed to squeeze a little time in to come and take a look). He double checked the prior work and then worked up from under the coach and found a severe kink close to the front of the coach. I have no idea how he managed to access the area or what he used to splice the hose together after he cut out the kink, but I can tell you that he put our coach back together and the heat was wonderful! And those floor tiles get very warm. I was backing that thermostat way down because the coach became too warm! What a wonderful experience! The floor heat is so efficient that I rarely used the forced air heat after the repair - the floor heat with a kick from the fireplace in the early mornings was usually enough to keep me very toasty.

One word of warning....since that repair we had one other occasion when the heat quit working after the coach had not been used for a few weeks. The fix was to "pound on the check valves." The only drawback with that fix - as I'm sure you know by now - is that you have to remove the dividing wall in the bay next to the Aqua-Hot, remove the cover from the Aqua-Hot and then take a big screw driver or hammer and give the check valves a good thump. Apparently it's not an uncommon problem and we are considering having an access panel cut in that dividing wall to ease the access when the "fix" becomes necessary. We are getting new check valves installed during our factory trip this summer, but will do an access panel if the problem reoccurs. I have to think it happens frequently because it is the first response we heard from everyone - Entegra CS and Aqua-Hot - when we described the problem - first 'thump' the check valves. If that doesn't work, they look further.

[voltdoc]

Originally Posted by hdgoldie

Not sure if this will help but we had an almost identical situation with our coach. Wonderful heat in the bedroom and full bath, toasty warm bays, icebox front coach and floor. We had Aqua-Hot technicians on site, a local repair guy who checked flow at all but the very front pump (dash area), cabinets disassembled, boiler antifreeze everywhere....really feeling your pain. Finally, Ted from Entegra came to our coach (he was in our area of the country for another purpose and managed to squeeze a little time in to come and take a look). He double checked the prior work and then worked up from under the coach and found a severe kink close to the front of the coach. I have no idea how he managed to access the area or what he used to splice the hose together after he cut out the kink, but I can tell you that he put our coach back together and the heat was wonderful! And those floor tiles get very warm. I was backing that thermostat way down because the coach became too warm! What a wonderful experience! The floor heat is so efficient that I rarely used the forced air heat after the repair - the floor heat with a kick from the fireplace in the early mornings was usually enough to keep me very toasty.

One word of warning....since that repair we had one other occasion when the heat quit working after the coach had not been used for a few weeks. The fix was to "pound on the check valves." The only drawback with that fix - as I'm sure you know by now - is that you have to remove the dividing wall in the bay next to the Aqua-Hot, remove the cover from the Aqua-Hot and then take a big screw driver or hammer and give the check valves a good thump. Apparently it's not an uncommon problem and we are considering having an access panel cut in that dividing wall to ease the access when the "fix" becomes necessary. We are getting new check valves installed during our factory trip this summer, but will do an access panel if the problem reoccurs. I have to think it happens frequently because it is the first response we heard from everyone - Entegra CS and Aqua-Hot - when we described the problem - first 'thump' the check valves. If that doesn't work, they look further.

Good info thanks!

[voltdoc]

Originally Posted by hdgoldie

look). ...The fix was to "pound on the check valves." The only drawback with that fix - as I'm sure you know by now - is that you have to remove the dividing wall in the bay next to the Aqua-Hot, remove the cover from the Aqua-Hot and then take a big screw driver or hammer and give the check valves a good thump. Apparently it's not an uncommon problem and we are considering having an access panel cut in that dividing wall to ease the access when the "fix" becomes necessary. We are getting new check valves installed during our factory trip this summer, but will do an access panel if the problem reoccurs. I have to think it happens frequently because it is the first response we heard from everyone - Entegra CS and Aqua-Hot - when we described the problem - first 'thump' the check valves. If that doesn't work, they look further.

Thanks again! Our Aquahot has a back panel but it is riveted on, was yours? If so what screw size did you use to reattach it after drilling out the rivets? Definitely seems like access to those check valves might need to be a regular event.


We definitely have a blockage in the floor though and have just dropped our unit off in Middlebury - can't say enough about what a great experience that was! Should know in a week or so how the patient is doing...

[hdgoldie]

Originally Posted by voltdoc

Thanks again! Our Aquahot has a back panel but it is riveted on, was yours? If so what screw size did you use to reattach it after drilling out the rivets? Definitely seems like access to those check valves might need to be a regular event.

I had forgotten that we started with the access panel riveted. That was removed by the first set of technicians to attempt a repair. I'm sorry that I can't really be helpful on the size screw they used to replace the panel after the rivets were drilled out - the coach is in a local repair shop at the moment (opposite problem this time....the A/C units!) so I can't go take a look. I doubt that we will be able to tell without removing that darn wall - but if you are in IN, ask for Ted and he should be able to give you some guidance on size. Might not be a bad item to have on board "just in case...."

[voltdoc]

Originally Posted by hdgoldie

I had forgotten that we started with the access panel riveted. That was removed by the first set of technicians to attempt a repair. I'm sorry that I can't really be helpful on the size screw they used to replace the panel after the rivets were drilled out - the coach is in a local repair shop at the moment (opposite problem this time....the A/C units!) so I can't go take a look. I doubt that we will be able to tell without removing that darn wall - but if you are in IN, ask for Ted and he should be able to give you some guidance on size. Might not be a bad item to have on board "just in case...."

Ok thanks for the good info, I'm guess once the rivets are drilled out it won't be hard to figure out. Wonder if it would make sense if possible to hinge that panel somehow for easier access? Or Velcro like some of the other panels. I'm sure its purpose is to maintain specified clearance around the Aquahot case so it probably shouldn't be removed outright.

[voltdoc]

So Entegra reports they were able to locate and repair the kink in the PEX tubing inside our Aspire floor without demolishing any tile. They were able to get access from underneath (I think in the cargo bay area). An access panel of some sort will cover the hole and provide future access for inspection.

[Us3Here]

Great news!

Best of luck with your coach

Originally Posted by voltdoc

So Entegra reports they were able to locate and repair the kink in the PEX tubing inside our Aspire floor without demolishing any tile. They were able to get access from underneath (I think in the cargo bay area). An access panel of some sort will cover the hole and provide future access for inspection.