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Old 04-25-2013, 06:57 PM   #1
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Repairs involving tile demolition - issues?

Has anyone on the forums here needed a repair that involved ripping up the tile in the main cabin and cutting into the subfloor to resolve a problem.

If so;
  1. Were you satisfied with the tile reinstallation?
  2. Did you experience any long term additional issues (cracks, etc.) due to those repairs?
  3. If you did experience long term issues (out of warranty) did Entegra stand behind them?

Thanks!
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:06 PM   #2
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We have had loose tiles and cracked tiles replaced without issues (two years on some) but nothing deeper.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:07 PM   #3
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Rob, is this a floor heat issue? I hope everything goes well. We have some tile issues with our new Aspire, but nothing that can't be fixed. Good luck, keep us posted.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:56 PM   #4
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I'M WONDERING ALSO IF IT'S FLOOR HEAT OR SOMETHING ELSE?
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:05 PM   #5
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Yes, Heating. Thermostat zone 1 (all 3 radiators in main cabin) plus zone 2 (under tile heat) do not work. Zones 3 (bedroom/rear bath radiators) and zone 4 (basement radiator) work ok.

FYI zones 1 and 2 are actually the same loop of piping and run off the same circulator pump on the Aquahot. The difference is the fans for the radiators run when zone 1 is heating and do not when zone 2 is running.

There is a kink/blockage inside an inaccessible part of the floor in the PEX (red pipe) loop that enters/exits near the inverter. This is at least a 27' length of under tile pipe. The kink is 10' into the loop from one end and 17' from the other.

I bypassed this section and the radiators now heat, but a big chunk of the floor tile stays cold.

On the bright side I now know more about the heating on the Entegras than I ever expected to know. Let me know if you have any questions!

Jacob & PJ in CS are great to work with and very helpful - they, and I (more I) spent a lot of time tracking this down.

Fix is destructive. I have every confidence Entegra will step up to the plate but this is a major inconvenience for us, not to mention disappointment.

Don't get me going on the dealer not identifying the issue...
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:44 PM   #6
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Rob, I'm not having most of the problems that you mention here but I will say that if you want your floor tiles to heat up, you must run the aqua hot for zone 2 for about 8 hrs or so. Want heated floors in the morning, run the zone all night. At least that is the way it works on mine.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:07 PM   #7
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This thread has suddenly become more interesting for me, having spent the last month and a half living with 20 and 30 degree temps in the AM. I have run various combinations of aquahot heating, heat pump (when in the forties or above), and the fireplace heater.

I never call that floor tiles "toasty" or even warm...tepid at best is what I've found in all areas. Now I am wondering what the level of warmth is that should be expected.

I've heard at least one mention of blowing the tubes out to increase the circulation...not sure how. Now this "kink". I guess I'd be interested in what warmth means to others WRT the floor tile.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnrzryd View Post
Rob, I'm not having most of the problems that you mention here but I will say that if you want your floor tiles to heat up, you must run the aqua hot for zone 2 for about 8 hrs or so. Want heated floors in the morning, run the zone all night. At least that is the way it works on mine.
Hi Tom, thanks. Yes I know it takes a while for the tiles to get toasty, but I was not even getting heat at the radiators - there are three in the Aspire RBQ for the main cabin - under entertainment center, under kitchen sink, under the front dash knickknack drawer.

The radiators take only a few minutes to start blowing warm air. Our first night aboard in the dealer lot in Albany it was upper 30's - we knew within an hour or so there was something wrong. With thermostat zone 1 set to 68F the aforementioned radiator fans started up but ran constantly thru the night and never delivered any heat. Fortunately the bed/bathroom loop did provide heat.

I spent a lot of time troubleshooting this and it has been definitively isolated to a specific loop of pipe. That loop has been bypassed out of the system and the radiators now work. I probed that loop with an electricians snake - and with air pressure - and there is an absolute blockage that won't even let any air get by.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSL417 View Post
This thread has suddenly become more interesting for me, having spent the last month and a half living with 20 and 30 degree temps in the AM. I have run various combinations of aquahot heating, heat pump (when in the forties or above), and the fireplace heater.

I never call that floor tiles "toasty" or even warm...tepid at best is what I've found in all areas. Now I am wondering what the level of warmth is that should be expected.

I've heard at least one mention of blowing the tubes out to increase the circulation...not sure how. Now this "kink". I guess I'd be interested in what warmth means to others WRT the floor tile.
Hmmm, is your Aquahot running on fuel (diesel/propane) and not just electric? I noticed in my case electric only mode leaves the system water temp a little tepid when it gets that cold out.

Also, do your radiators blow warm air? I don't know if this is true on all models, but on the Aspire, Zone 1 (main cabin radiators) and Zone 2 in floor heat are all part of the same loop running off one of the two circulator pumps on the Aquahot. Zone 3 (bed/bath radiators and Zone 4 (basement radiator) run off the second of the two circulator pumps in the Aquahot.

If your zone 1 radiators are blowing warm air then you are also getting warm water under the tile too (could be Anthem/Cornerstone are set up differently). In regard to perceived warmth, once I bypassed the blocked loop, I let the heat run overnight. Of course I have a large section in the main cabin with no heat under the tile due to the blockage, but the rear bathroom floor was what I would call toasty warm to the touch. Then again that was covered with the rug, so that probably amplified the toastiness. Won't be able to comment further on this until our blocked loop gets fixed.

So for the purposes of general discussion, below are what the various thermostat zones mean in regard to what is getting heated on an Aspire RBQ (ON/OFF means thermostat calling for heat or not, zone 4 is the thermostat for the basement heat):
  • Zone 1 ON/ Zone 2 OFF - under tile hot water circulating throughout the coach, hot water circulating through the 3 main cabin radiators (ent. ctr./kitchen/dash) and the radiator fans are ON.
  • Zone 1 OFF/ Zone 2 ON - under tile hot water circulating throughout the coach, hot water circulating through the 3 main cabin radiators (ent. ctr./kitchen/dash) and the radiator fans are OFF.
  • Zone 1 ON/ Zone 2 ON - under tile hot water circulating throughout the coach, hot water circulating through the 3 main cabin radiators (ent. ctr./kitchen/dash) and the radiator fans are ON.
  • Zone 1 OFF/ Zone 2 OFF - no hot water circulating for Aquahot pump 1 and the radiator fans are OFF.
  • Zone 3 ON/ Zone 4 OFF - hot water circulating through the 3 (bedroom, bathroom and basement) radiators. Bed/Bath radiator fans are ON. Basement radiator fan is OFF.
  • Zone 3 OFF/ Zone 4 ON - hot water circulating through the 3 (bedroom, bathroom and basement) radiators. Bed/Bath radiator fans are OFF. Basement radiator fan is ON.
  • Zone 3 ON/ Zone 4 ON - hot water circulating through the 3 (bedroom, bathroom and basement) radiators. Bed/Bath radiator fans are ON. Basement radiator fan is ON.
  • Zone 3 OFF/ Zone 4 OFF - no hot water circulating for Aquahot pump 2 and all the radiator fans are OFF.
Seems odd I know to have two thermostat zones that actually run on the same physical circulator pump, but IMO it is actually a pretty good way to get 4 "virtual zones" out of only two circulator pumps on the Aquahot.

The radiators don't dump much heat into the room if their fans are not running so that directs more heat into the tile if that is your preference. If you want quick heat though, the radiators will do the job, but since the radiators are transferring heat to the air and cooling down the water as it passes thru, less heat will go into the tile.

Another tidbit of interest is the presence of a "booster pump" in the zone 1/zone 2 circulation. On my Aspire it is located in the "tank bay" - this is the door without a latch on the pass. side immediately aft of the last cargo door. Removal of two bolts underneath lets this door swing up. The booster pump is mounted to the fwd bulkhead here - basically right behind your water filters.

The booster pump runs in my case when either zone 1 or zone 2 is calling for heat. There was some question if this was correct or if it was just supposed to run for zone 2. I suspect it should run for either or both zones calling for heat. You can tell if it is running, you will feel a measurable vibration on the bulkhead where your water filters are attached.

My guess is this booster pump was added to assist the Aquahot circulator push the hot water thru all that in floor pipe. A "normal" (non-Entegra) Aquahot install does not have under tile heat, just radiators. On an Entegra, the pipe that loops around under the tile adds a lot of linear feet of pipe and therefore some extra help is needed to keep the water flowing thru it efficiently.

Don't know for sure how much extra length of pipe we are talking, but in my case just the "blocked" in-floor loop section was about 28 feet (as measured by my probing with the snake). And that is just one of several sections, so I would venture a guess that the in-floor piping may be as much as 100' or more above and beyond what a normal Aquahot installation would see.

If you don't have a booster pump or yours isn't working perhaps that could explain the lackluster heating performance.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:47 PM   #10
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Hello all

First post on the BBS, as we used to call it.. I been lurking around a bit and decided to join up!

I have a 2013 Aspire that was at the factory for repairs 2 weeks ago. There was nail through an Aqua-Hot line near the front of the coach.

They removed a bunch of tiles, sub floor, insulation, repaired the leak and replaced the sub board and re-tiled. Looks great. Can't tell any work was done.

No cracks noticed driving it from Indiana to New York

Overall we are pleased with the work they performed.

Wayne/Cathy and Kaylee (Italian Greyhound)



Quote:
Originally Posted by voltdoc View Post
Has anyone on the forums here needed a repair that involved ripping up the tile in the main cabin and cutting into the subfloor to resolve a problem.

If so;
  1. Were you satisfied with the tile reinstallation?
  2. Did you experience any long term additional issues (cracks, etc.) due to those repairs?
  3. If you did experience long term issues (out of warranty) did Entegra stand behind them?

Thanks!
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Old 04-27-2013, 06:48 AM   #11
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Thanks for sharing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Us3Here View Post
Hello all

First post on the BBS, as we used to call it.. I been lurking around a bit and decided to join up!

I have a 2013 Aspire that was at the factory for repairs 2 weeks ago. There was nail through an Aqua-Hot line near the front of the coach.

They removed a bunch of tiles, sub floor, insulation, repaired the leak and replaced the sub board and re-tiled. Looks great. Can't tell any work was done.

No cracks noticed driving it from Indiana to New York

Overall we are pleased with the work they performed.

Wayne/Cathy and Kaylee (Italian Greyhound)
Thanks Wayne/Cathy/Kaylee for sharing this info and welcome to the forums! And congrats on your new coach as well!

Your experience with the repair definitely makes me feel a little better about my situation - guess we qualify as members of a very exclusive club!

In my conversations with Jacob at Entegra he had mentioned, not you specifically, but your issue with the nail. That must have been a tough one - slow leak I imagine? Must have been messy? How did it manifest and how did you figure out where it was coming from? Inquiring minds want to know!

So is the name Kaylee related to the gaelic Ceilidh which has the same pronunciation?
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:58 AM   #12
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Rob:

I'm a novice at aqua hot. When you refer to the zones are you addressing the ones on the "heat pump" thermostat? And, if so, is the small white thermostat above the toilet just for the temp of the circulating fluid?

Thanks. I feel like I might be getting a little bit smarter.
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Old 04-27-2013, 12:09 PM   #13
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We didn't notice any problems until we used the Aqua-hot system for heat, later in the year. It was a cool evening and we fired up the system and turned on the thermostats. The coach heated up nicely but shut down over the night. The next morning I looked at the reservoir in the basement for the Aqua-Hot and it was empty. I refilled it with the boiler antifreeze provided by the dealer and the unit started up, giving us heat.

Throughout the year, as we used the Aqua-Hot for warmth, the system would suck the reservoir dry and shut down, and I’ll refill it and the unit again would start, but I couldn’t locate any fluid on the ground beneath us.
This came to a head when we attempted to use the floor heat for the first time, from the thermostat in the small bathroom. The inside of the coach quickly because foggy and humid and we shut the system down and dried EVERY piece of furniture, wood and walls…Everything..

When we brought the coach back to Middlebury for some warranty work, they quickly located the problem, a staple through the PEX in the front, done during installation.

Entegra fixed the leak and filled the system. Working as it’s supposed to now.

Regarding Kaylee, my wife wanted an Irish name, I didn’t know it had a Gaelic translation. Does it mean something?


Regards





Quote:
Originally Posted by voltdoc View Post
Thanks Wayne/Cathy/Kaylee for sharing this info and welcome to the forums! And congrats on your new coach as well!

Your experience with the repair definitely makes me feel a little better about my situation - guess we qualify as members of a very exclusive club!

In my conversations with Jacob at Entegra he had mentioned, not you specifically, but your issue with the nail. That must have been a tough one - slow leak I imagine? Must have been messy? How did it manifest and how did you figure out where it was coming from? Inquiring minds want to know!

So is the name Kaylee related to the gaelic Ceilidh which has the same pronunciation?
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Old 04-27-2013, 12:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voltdoc View Post
Hi Tom, thanks. Yes I know it takes a while for the tiles to get toasty, but I was not even getting heat at the radiators - there are three in the Aspire RBQ for the main cabin - under entertainment center, under kitchen sink, under the front dash knickknack drawer.

The radiators take only a few minutes to start blowing warm air. Our first night aboard in the dealer lot in Albany it was upper 30's - we knew within an hour or so there was something wrong. With thermostat zone 1 set to 68F the aforementioned radiator fans started up but ran constantly thru the night and never delivered any heat. Fortunately the bed/bathroom loop did provide heat.

I spent a lot of time troubleshooting this and it has been definitively isolated to a specific loop of pipe. That loop has been bypassed out of the system and the radiators now work. I probed that loop with an electricians snake - and with air pressure - and there is an absolute blockage that won't even let any air get by.
This absolute blockage is very strange. Must have a severe kink, or maybe a foreign object in the line. Maybe a snake camera could help in you troubleshooting. Good luck, we are all pulling for you.
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