Slides & Leveling

[DeWat]

We are seriously considering a Cornerstone before our Allegro Bus starts losing value faster. In doing my due diligence, I noticed that due to the way the Entegras are built, they require the slides to go out at ride height prior to leveling, and in at ride height after storing the levelers. Here is the reason I am creating this post... we have a driveway at the sticks & bricks for our coach, and will often driveway camp just because we love the experience. Sometimes, we'll even prepare the coach on weekends just to spend the day. These driveway excursions are between our 4 - 6 trips we make each year, and can happen as much as 5 - 10 times between trips. My concern is that to do this in an Entegra, I'll have to run the big diesel to get to ride height before deploying the slides, and then run the big diesel again to get to ride height just to store the slides. (In the Bus, I just turn the ignition to on to operate the levelers before/after slide operation). I think this could be detrimental to the big diesel, especially when we do this during the winter season. What are the opinions on this, and possibilities of driveway camping without harming anything??? Thanks in advance.

[brobox]

We are currently driveway camping during our remodeling project. Our driveway has a slope due to heavy rains in FL. I am at ride height when I back in, so I deploy the slides before leveling..no additional running of the engine.

When leaving there is not much more running of the engine than to air up normally. Maybe a minute more from the time the jacks are raised until it's aired up to full ride height again. My Travel Supreme was just the opposite for retracting the slide.... I don't see much difference in the Entegra as for engine run time. Airing up to 125 PSI takes about the same amount of time.

[Gary.Jones]

Yes, I think that you will find that you need to start up the Cummins to get the coach to ride height..... my coach tends to sink in the rear end over a weeks time. I have complained to Spartan about that and have been told by Spartan that there is no expectation from Charlotte that the coach will hold itself at the full air level over even a 4 or 5 day period of time, and so they argue there is "no problem" (I think there is a leak that no one has found yet). Because my coach sinks butt down, then you are right, I have to fire up the Cummins if I wanted to retract slides before I can do that. I don't see that as a big problem and I also don't think that hurts the Cummins at all to be run for brief periods of time to accomplish that. I have found that 5 to 7 minutes of running the Cummins on high idle (1000 revs) will air the coach up to full height. I have been told by others who have attended Spartan U and had people from Cummins talk say that they were told that there was no trouble in shutting the Cummins down after only a few minutes or no minutes of idling after a long run on the interstate, and also that brief run for this sort of adjustment are not a problem. I don't think you need to worry about this issue.

I find myself turning the Cummins on and off several times in my typical "departure ritual" because you also find you cannot deploy the slides if the engine is running. I dont think you need to worry about this.

Gary

[Marcosdad]

Since you're considering a Cornerstone, I'll throw this out...We were told by Ted Cook (noted Entegra guru and Eastern National Sales rep) that one may operate the slides with the rig leveled on the Hadley system. I' d verify this again, but my perception is that if the rig is NOT mechanically twisted by the jacks and IS sitting on the air bags, one may operate the slides.

[Matt D]

We have a small 12V compressor connected inline which can be used to air up the coach without the engine running.

When it's time to go, pull the jacks, turn on the Viair 450C, and wait for it to arrive at ride height.

Once aired up, pull sides, pull shore connections, start generator if needed in hot weather, fire up the main and roll.

-Matt

[DeWat]

I thank all for the ideas, and welcome continuing thoughts and conversations. I might not have been completely clear in my OP, so I'll give a hypothetical future, real past scenario. It's October and the "summer" camping season is winding down, so I'm ready to put the coach to bed. I park in our driveway and winterize (I know that winterizing can be another argument, but I don't believe in providing a heated home to attract critters looking to get out of the cold winter). While we may not plan our next trip until late February or sometime in March, we'll still visit the coach on some weekends just for the peace and serenity... we might even spend a holiday weekend or two driveway camping. Given these facts, I believe that starting the big diesel for a couple minutes to deploy the slides, then repeating the process to store the slides would be hard on the engine given the continuing winter temperatures.... even if I were to activate the engine heater the night before.

I know I didn't mention the season/temperatures in my OP, but this is one of the conditions that I would think would not be good, and why I'm asking. Our driveway is not that unlevel, but it does have a slight downward slope that is hard to see to the naked eye, but easily seen when the Bus is in the driveway and leveled (picture attached). Again, thanks to all, past and future!

[Matt D]

Dewey, as I said it's very easy to install a small compressor as there is a customer air line in the basement. Therefore starting isn't necessary.

However, should you start it, that isn't a problem either. This thing is less tolerant of long idling than quick starts.

-Matt

[DeWat]

Originally Posted by Matt D

Dewey, as I said it's very easy to install a small compressor as there is a customer air line in the basement. Therefore starting isn't necessary.

However, should you start it, that isn't a problem either. This thing is less tolerant of long idling than quick starts.

-Matt

Thanks Matt. I don't know Entegras, but the customer air lines on Tiffins are supply only... you can not use them to air up a coach. If Entegra is different in that I can air up via the customer supply line, that would answer the question.

[brobox]

What Matt said, the Entegra is per-plumed for an outside compressor. Airing up with the engine would be no different than the current Bus.

[DeWat]

Originally Posted by brobox

What Matt said, the Entegra is per-plumed for an outside compressor. Airing up with the engine would be no different than the current Bus.

Thanks Chuck. I don't use the air leveling in the Bus when in the driveway, so the engine doesn't get started. What I do is turn the ignition to the on position, and level with the hydraulic levelers. As mentioned by Matt, if I can air up the coach through the customer line in the basement, that would solve the problem since I already have 2 air compressors, a 125 lb Husky TA-2530B, and a 150 lb Porter-Cable C2002, so I should be able to get to ride height without the big diesel.

[Mwoodofd]

If starting the engine, and letting it air up 30 to 50 times a year is harmful to the engine, please let me know. I start mine every 2 weeks or so when stored, and the generator, just to exercise the systems. I run the engine for about 5 minutes, and the gen for about 20 minutes. Hope this is not bad?

BTW, airing up with a compressor when leaving early in the morning from a RV Spot is nice not to disturb your neighbor.

[Gary.Jones]

Dewey

I gave you my response earlier and I am pretty sure that I understood it the first time.... I can't fathom your concern with starting your Cummins. You WILL NOT hurt your Cummins by starting and stopping it in fairly short intervals. And, it is going to take a longer engine run than you currently understand to air up your coach. It is not uncommon for me to need to run the Cummins for 5 to 8 minutes just to get the coach to air up (and it probably has to be done on fast idle (1,000 revs) to get it done that quickly)..... at least on my Anthem, it is a much slower process than you are thinking, I think. And even if it was only a couple of minutes, you are not hurting anything. If you heard that it is a few seconds to air up and very short runs are a problem with an ISL, maybe that is true for another coach, but I don't think that is true for most Entegras..... turn it off and on at will and stop worrying about it. JMHO.

Gary

[Matt D]

Dewey, I can absolutely assure you airing up via the customer air line works..

..either in your driveway, or on the side of I-10 on a Sunday after your engine driven air compressor dies at 7600 miles, saving you from a tow.



Yeah, that was me.

Regarding multiple starts.. As a general rule of thumb, most engine manufacturers will prefer an engine to be started, warmed to operating temperature, and run for anywhere between 30 minutes and an hour.

Here's why: Inside an engine most components are coated in lubricant, and there are large spaces with nothing but air. As the engine cools after shutdown, that air cools, and any moisture present will condense and form small water droplets on the available surfaces. Given enough time, this droplet could theoretically promote the development of corrosion, or rust. If this occurs on the unmachined castings, no big deal. If this occurs on a machined surface, very small imperfections can develop from this rust. If the engine is then run, these imperfections can result in "self clearancing" of tightly machined tolerances and increased, undesirable tolerances.

The solution is to run the engine long enough to achieve a normal operating temperature and the additional time beyond that necessary to evaporate any moisture in the crankcase. Done in a routine manner, moisture will be unlikely to become harmful.

Absent this practice, not starting the engine until you can achieve a normal temp for at least :30 to :60 minutes would be the next best option.

In other words, if you can't run it for an hour at normal (not idling) temperatures, don't run it at all. Running it at a normal temp dictates driving it, which will reward you in excercising all of the other systems that thirst for routine operation. A win-win.

The generator is slightly different in that Cummins ONAN is most interested in operating the generator in a loaded manner so as to create heat in the windings, and eliminate harmful moisture.

Short runs introduce fresh, warm, moisture laden air that will not have a means of elimination.

This is the scientific basis behind that age old mechanical wisdom you are so familiar with: "Machines don't like to sit unused."

-Matt

[HarleySG]

Hey Matt,

Thanks for the mechanical explanation. Makes sense!!!
What did you use to air up the coach via the customer air line, after the on-board compressor failed? Did you have your own viair at that time, or some other compressor?

Thanks!