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Old 02-06-2019, 08:23 AM   #1
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Some things I have learned about my new 2019 Cornerstone - Part 5

Not surprisingly, you just keep learning about these machines....

Many know that I hate the Adaptive Cruise Control that comes standard on the 2019 Cornerstones. I hate it because I don't need my coach RADAR or ECM deciding what speed I need to drive, which is what it does...... by holding the driver hostage to the vehicle in front of you in your lane, a variable distance in front of you. However, I am very comfortable with what old fashioned classic cruise control (OFCCC) did in maintaining speed, which was simply to hold your speed to a specified speed picked by the driver, not the guy or woman in front of you. So, I defeat the ACC system as much as I can in cluttered highway situations (in uncluttered traffic situations, ACC works about as well as OFCCC! ).

However, I am happy to report that I believe that the tons of owners who have been complaining about the implementation of the ACC system by Spartan and WABCO (if you don't believe me, just try talking about these systems to the customer service people that have to listen to the driver complaints) have apparently been significant in making some changes to the system. I have previously reported that my coach would only offer to go into a mode that defeats the ACC when my coach was in ACC mode but the ACC was not actually doing anything to set the speed of the coach (i.e., the coach is rolling down a grade or hill at a speed faster than the set speed). If the ACC is not really feeding any diesel to the engine, then you could press the joy stick and eventually the dash/ECM would offer to let you defeat the ACC, and if taken, the option let you go to OFCCC instead of ACC (CMS stays operational regardless of what you do). Now, I take no credit, but for other problems with the coach, I needed to have my Cummins and any Spartan ECMs reflashed in late November, and I started to notice that my coach would offer to let me defeat the ACC while at rest in park or neutral. That was new. Never did that before. Now, again due to some ongoing current problems with engine temperature, I had to have the ECMs reflashed again a couple of days ago, and in my ~ 60 miles drive yesterday, noticed that something new was happening. Even when driving on the flat, and not just when rolling down a hill, the dash now offers to defeat the ACC even when in ACC mode and the ACC is feeding diesel to the Cummins. You now don't have to wait 100 miles to find a downgrade in Arizona to get rid of ACC. WOW! BIG improvement! I assume that this is occurring because of some fundamental changes to the ECM programming.

For those of us that don't need or want the ACC to determine our speed or driving strategies, this is a nice improvement. Keep the faith!

Gary
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:40 AM   #2
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Oh, and here's another thing. This may simply be because I didnt pay attention to this in the owners manual, or maybe I didnt even read the owner's manual in this section, but regardless, I discovered something new that I had not previously known for whatever reason I was clueless.

On my Valid digital dash, I had a scrolling display that scrolled through throttle (diesel pedal) position (0 to 100%), turbo boost, engine oil temperature, and 3 or 4 other engine parameters. Because I am currently having trouble with faults produced by excessive engine oil temperature, I have been watching the engine oil temperature like a hawk. I have also been watching tranny temps and engine coolant temps like a hawk. Usually, I am told that engine coolant temp and engine oil temp are pretty close together with engine oil, not surprisingly, being higher; in my case, higher than it should be. That problem is not resolved, and if anyone has any ideas on this issue or normal conditions that I should see in the relationship between coolant temp (mine is 181 degrees plus or minus a couple) and engine oil temperature (mine at normal highway speeds is running 237 to 250 (which I am told 250 is a shut down range temp)).

Anyhow, I have been very interested in concentrating on my oil temperature and I discovered yesterday, by trial and error, that I can lock the scrolling display of operational characteristics on one issue........ so I can lock the scroll on engine oil temperature and it stays there constantly..... no scroll. That is really helpful. In ~ 60 mile drive from Phoenix to Casa Grande, at 65 mph, my display showed engine oil temp gradually increasing from ~ 235 to 250 degrees when driving 65 mph, at which point I decreased speed to see if I could lower engine oil temp. I dropped to 58 mph and engine oil temp varied from 248 to 250 degrees for ~ 10 minutes, before dropping back to 246-248. At that point, I dropped my speed to 55 mph and over the next ~ 15 minutes, the engine oil temp dropped from 246 to like 238. Anyhow, the point is that I was able to hold engine oil temp on the display all the time. New feature or new to me.... not sure.

I would be really happy to hear any comments on diesel engine normal operational oil temperatures from you diesel engine mechanics or truck owners who know more about all this than I do.

Gary
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:19 AM   #3
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On mine I have not paid any attention to the oil temp besides looking at the gauge and seeing that it is in the green range. I have no idea what that range is but I will pay attention now.

I will be interested to see what temps others are seeing.

Do you know where the oil temp sensor is located?
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:35 AM   #4
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My guess is you likely have an internal engine problem, an oil port partially plugged with manufacturing shavings, an oil pump shaft slipping and not pumping enough volume to keep oil cool etc. hope I am wrong and probably am but you do have a strange problem and if itís not the temp sensor it about has to be mechanical OR software conflicts or a board problem. Later two are way more likely and desirable imho. High 230Ēs was pretty normal to lower 240ís Peteís with Cat power. All JMHO
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Old 02-06-2019, 12:02 PM   #5
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Gary, I would bet on the oil temp thermostat in oil cooler or oil cooler itself for your high oil temp. Doesn’t appear to be electronic since temp goes down as you unload the engine. I think your electronics are telling you the truth, you actually have high oil temp. JMHO
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:49 PM   #6
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TurboJack

I know that the mechanic said that he changed the oil temperature sensor from under the coach. The service manager said the oil temperature sensor was on the front of the Cummins and I assumed that they would get to the sensor by pulling out the hatch in the rear bathroom area, but never saw anyone go into the coach. So, the mechanic either went under it or up into the front of the engine compartment from a pit.

Gary
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Old 02-06-2019, 05:01 PM   #7
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Gary, I talked to an 18 owner a few weeks ago. He also did not like the ACC. A short time after owning it he took it to Cummins and had the ACC programed out. Didn't sound like to big of a deal. That was over a year ago.
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:08 PM   #8
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Chuck..................... interesting story. I have asked many many times to many different people, and Spartan people usually quote chapter and verse that they are not able to give any information on removing the system. I find it hard to believe that any Spartan authorized facility did anything to officially remove that system. Maybe, but that would be very atypical.

What is strange about that is that JH published a simple behavior to defeat the ACC system on 17 and 18 Cornerstones (push both the up and down buttons on the Wabco system control panel). Maybe your friend just didnt want to be bothered pressing buttons.

If they have now changed the system so it can be defeated easily, then this is a big step in making me comfortable with how this coach drives. I have no problem with the CMS other than the persistence of the alarm tone and the volume of the warning tone. It should go away after lets say two loud beeps and/or the volume should be adjustable. Harassing me for 30 seconds is not needed.

Gary
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:33 PM   #9
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Chuck..................... interesting story. I have asked many many times to many different people, and Spartan people usually quote chapter and verse that they are not able to give any information on removing the system. I find it hard to believe that any Spartan authorized facility did anything to officially remove that system. Maybe, but that would be very atypical.

What is strange about that is that JH published a simple behavior to defeat the ACC system on 17 and 18 Cornerstones (push both the up and down buttons on the Wabco system control panel). Maybe your friend just didnt want to be bothered pressing buttons.

If they have now changed the system so it can be defeated easily, then this is a big step in making me comfortable with how this coach drives. I have no problem with the CMS other than the persistence of the alarm tone and the volume of the warning tone. It should go away after lets say two loud beeps and/or the volume should be adjustable. Harassing me for 30 seconds is not needed.

Gary
Gary, I have the solution to your problem. One of the changes on the 2020 Cornerstone is "Volume adjustment added to the collision mitigation alarm."

And don't go getting your hopes up that you'll be able to retrofit it to your 2019. Not saying that won't be do-able, but why go through all that trouble when you can just go to Perry and do what you did last year?

No need to thank me. You're a good guy and I'm here to help you out.
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:02 PM   #10
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My friend Larry

I've already been seriously told that for just ~ $40,000 USD, I could probably get myself a new late model 2019 Cornerstone ??!!?? Now, I am not the brightest guy that ever tread the earth, but that is not an offer that I will pursue further.

But, I really appreciate you telling me that. It doesn't surprise me at all. I am not taking credit but about August 2018, I had a long, serious, and not mincing words conversation with senior Entegra and Spartan people where that was one of the issues that we seriously discussed. Not the only one, mind you, but no one could say that the powers-that-be did not get clear and firm feedback. And, positively, the people involved in this discussion/phone conversation were receptive and heard every word I had on my mind. Again, I am sure that I am not the only person that has given them feedback, but if I had anything to do with some of these changes, I am happy.

Now, I am guessing that this is all programmable, either in VegaTouch, or Valid, or Spartan, or Cummins and if you are not pulling my leg on this change (are you....? You sometimes have a difficult to understand sense of humor ... ), I am reasonably optimistic that it is something that a software change can resolve. The inability to save your default preferences (like the toad being added to the Valor TPMS system, or the ACC being defaulted as the default condition for ACC, or what you most want to see on the engine performance scroll) has got to be a simple software addition. Maybe we will even get an easily changed Valor TPMS baseline process would be equally good.

Now that I have met you face to face, I can say that I really appreciate your offer to help me on this.... I'd be even happier if you told me your engine oil temps on your Cornerstone.... :-)

Hope springs eternal....

Gary
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:35 PM   #11
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Gary, you were questioning what other oil temperatures were running on the Cummins X engine.
I just off the phone with one of our drivers running a 450 Hp Cummins X engine in a 2019 Peterbilt 579. He reported oil temperature at 225 and water temperature at 180.
Heís been on the road at less 5 hrs tonight and he would be about 78 to 79,000 lbs loaded rolling through the hills of southeastern Ohio, so he is working that Cummins.
Itís has just over 5,000 miles on it.
Hope that helps,
Richard
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:08 PM   #12
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With regard to the ACC, in my opinion after driving various manufacturers versions of ACC, Ram trucks got it right. They have the traditional ACC with distance control and they have a second button that turns on only the traditional cruise. I love it. I get to choose.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:10 PM   #13
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With regard to the ACC, in my opinion after driving various manufacturers versions of ACC, Ram trucks got it right. They have the traditional ACC with distance control and they have a second button that turns on only the traditional cruise. I love it. I get to choose.
Yep I love it on the new Ram Longhorn.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:07 PM   #14
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Have the same on my F150 Ford and it is great.
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