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Old 08-23-2014, 01:17 AM   #1
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Spartan Academy/Revelations

Just spent the week at Spartan Academy in Charlotte, Mi. For those of you who have not attended Spartan Academy, I highly recommend it. When you leave, you will have a much better handle on your chassis and how it works.

All that said, I discovered a few things about my Cornerstone that were a bit disconcerting. This is a new 2015 45K with a little over 3000 miles on it.

One of the things they do at Spartan is a complete walk around and 4 corner weighing to allow you to properly set your tire pressures. They also offer a complete chassis check for $100, money well spent. Coming from the factory, my coach was set at 125 front - 85 dualies - 100 rears. Needless to say, the ride was a little rougher than ideal. I thought that once we got the actual weights of the coach, I would be lowering some of those pressures - especially the front tires. During the inspection, it was discovered that the ride height was completely out of wack and needed to be adjusted. In addition, the alignment was also in need of adjustment. I am extremely gentle with my coach, so this was not from hitting potholes, curbs, etc.

To their credit, Entegra paid for the $480 alignment. Issue resolved

Another thing that was discovered was that when Lazy Days installed my Air Force One braking system, they tied the air supply directly into a brake line. A big no no. Spartan fixed it and LD and I will be having conversation about the $200 cost.

The most distressing issue (at least for me) was my wheel weighting. After all adjustments and with the coach at full operating loads, my right front wheel is at 9510 lbs while my left front is at 7950, on a 20,000 lb front end. The total coach weighed in at about 47,000 lbs.

We are not full timers and the coach is NOT overloaded. There is really nothing of any significance to move from the front to other areas to make a difference.

Spartan tells me that there is nothing "unsafe" about the loading, however, they would prefer better balance. It also forces me to keep my front tire pressures set to at least 115 psi. So much for softening the ride.

According to some of the people at Spartan, Entegra has had an issue with weight balance in the past. Obviously, engineering needs to look a bit closer at weigh distribution during design.

I haven't really driven much since the adjustments and I will post updates after I put a few hundred miles behind me.

Just to be clear, we still LOVE our "rolling resort". I'll just have to keep all my gold bullion behind the tag axle from now on.
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Old 08-23-2014, 04:27 AM   #2
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Thats very interesting, thanks for the report Ralph
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Old 08-23-2014, 04:36 AM   #3
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Nothing in your weights that is totally awful. Both front wheels are within limits, no problem there. The lateral imbalance could be better, so I would try try to remove any heavy things in the right front storage ares and move them to the left, or towards the rear. Them put the lightest things you have in the right front. But you probably knew that already. Enjoy your coach!
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Old 08-23-2014, 06:47 AM   #4
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Nothing in your weights that is totally awful. Both front wheels are within limits, no problem there. The lateral imbalance could be better, so I would try try to remove any heavy things in the right front storage ares and move them to the left, or towards the rear. Them put the lightest things you have in the right front. But you probably knew that already. Enjoy your coach!
Unfortunately, there is very little weight that I will be able to shift. I have a wine chiller in the front right side compartment, but even with wine in it, it weighs under 120 lbs and there is really no other place to put it. At most, I may be able to get a shift of weight of about 100 lbs. it is kind of hard to say to the wife, "yeh, we got over 5000 lbs of additional capacity, but no place to put it."
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:03 AM   #5
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I realize each coach is somewhat different and that I have a 45b. As you have probably noticed on a good road your cornerstone rides great and on a bad road it rides bad. I had all my weights and alignment checked and was able to reduce front tire pressure to 100 and all others to 90, that did help. What helped the most was speaking to Charlie fisher at Spartan and me not Entegra changing the shocks to the koni.
They are not a warranty item because Spartan uses each brand and the coach company specs what they want, the factory shocks were not defective but did deliver a harsh ride. I did change them myself and it took about 5 hours to do all six.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:24 AM   #6
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Picking up my 45K in a few hours. Planning to weigh on the way home. Is it possible to get separate weights for the tag & drive axles at a CAT scale?
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:29 AM   #7
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Cat will give you a 3 axle weight. Not sure how accurate it is.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:31 AM   #8
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Cat will give you a 3 axle weight. Not sure how accurate it is.
Accurate enough that they will go to court with a trucker found to be "over weight" if the CAT scale says otherwise. I use CAT all the time and have a system to get 6 corner weights with 2 passes. I have had the weight compared to the Spartan scales and been pretty darn close.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:34 AM   #9
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I can't get my head around how they can accurately distinguish between duals and tag on the weight platform.

But then, there's a lot of things I can't get my head around and just accept. ;-)
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:35 AM   #10
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Picking up my 45K in a few hours. Planning to weigh on the way home. Is it possible to get separate weights for the tag & drive axles at a CAT scale?
Yes...you just need to have someone help spot you so you split pad 2 & 3 with your drive & tag wheels. Its easy. In my 43' MH that puts me very close to the proper place to activate the speaker button. I carry a 3' wood rod to make the reach. Seen many truckers have a stick/rod for the same reason.

Here is a link to CAT Scales.
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:02 AM   #11
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Vance, it is all by a formula on the CAT scales, but evidently satisfies the various state DOTs at the truck weight centers. That said, when a patrolman with portable weight weighs each axle, on each side...well, I don't know how that works, but I don't think that happens much lore these days...too many drunks to chase.

Cripps, the fact that you have 2600#s of "space" with you weights sounds to me like a good thing. As far as distribution, I do think there are things we can due, and recognize...I'm just starting at this with a new coach. First, in the front compartment, put your tool box on the driver side. We've also decided to carry the sink covers, heavy fireproof safe (passports and can't afford to lose papers and weighs about 70#) and other heavy stuff to fill out on the left side. The fact that we have electric slides that go both ways suggests do a little better distribution in the next two bay areas. Coming from an Anthem, I had mostly the things I used routinely on the passenger slide, since that was the way the slide comes out. I am certainly going to take a look at distribution, based on your post, but I suspect that the forward frig on the 45K may be a major player in that distribution. Guess you'll have to carry that gold bullion in the front left An interesting side, though is the 8 AGMs should be countering some of the frig. I think the thing that worries me a little, is when I put the motorcycle on the lift in back, based upon what you've reported. Going to reduce weight even further.

You're on the mark about the class. I'd like to do it again in the Cornerstone. We're going to Spartan anyway in Oct for the same reasons as you...want to tune the chassis now that the coach is on board; a recommendation that all might follow. I did have a slight drift and a steering wheel out of alignment, so I'm relatively certain that the front end needs a little special care.

My ride is excellent...much softer than the Anthem, and one of the major differences I noted. And, man, that 600HP and 1950 ft#s of torque "off the line" at stop lights makes me feel like I'm in my old corvette. Well, maybe a little exaggeration Hills were a breeze.
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Old 08-23-2014, 03:36 PM   #12
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Hawgguy,

I hope all goes/went well with the delivery of your coach today. I wish you all the best with your rig and remember to post lots of pictures when you get a chance! Hope you have many years of safe and happy travels! God bless.
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Old 08-23-2014, 04:07 PM   #13
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I have often wondered how Entegra does as good as it does with the front end weights with their cab forward design, they have a lot of coach in front of the front axle and that genny all the way up front is a lot of weight (not to mention my fat rear! and those 8 AGMs. My theory is that is the reason for the heavier tires and axles up front and even though the balance my not be ideal, you are within the guidelines. All JMHO
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:16 PM   #14
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Drove the coach today from Charlotte to Frankenmuth. The Interstates up here leave much to be desired. Actually, all things considered, the ride wasn't bad at all. Obviously, on good roads, the coach was like riding on a cloud. On rougher roads it was still pretty good.

It was suggested at Spartan that the Koni's could possibly improve the ride. I have decided to run the coach with the Bilsteins and see how they perform. I will be returning to Spartano next year to have my annual maintenance done. At that time I will decide whether the Koni's are required.

In the meantime, the DW and I spent some time today, shifting the load the best we could, limited as that might be. We are also going to get to work on the wine in the chiller. Anything to improve the ride
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