Spartan reqires PING tank for M&G / AF1 Toad Brake

[MoHoGo]

Just found out that Spartan requires a ping tank to be installed on a coach using coach air for a toad braking system. Just so happens that Spartan sells one for around 700 bucks. If you don't use a ping tank it could void warranty issues and with Spartan advising on its use could also have some legal ramifications should there ever be an accident.

One, 700 bucks seems quite high for an air tank reservoir. Just looking at all of the small air compressor tanks out there selling for under 200 bucks seems to reinforce that it a bit out of line.

Two, the additional labor to install it can be a couple hundred bucks.

Three, both the M&G and AF1 have been installed on countless coaches without this tank being an issue.

If this is so critical it really does seem that Spartan should include it on coaches from Entegra as it is really these mid range coaches where you would think an M&G or AF1 would be used. In fact, in thinking about it, Entegra could insist that it be on the chassis.

The info I am getting is that the Newmar coaches on the Spartan will have this on the chassis as a standard item. Not sure if that is fact, but something I will sure look into. If so, where is Entegra stance on this, sure would rather have the tank in lieu of some of the motorized engine cover.

A question I have is there an alternative to getting this from Spartan. You would think that if it is such a major concern that M&G and SMI would be stating this in there literature as a requirement.

I know there are other choices for braking systems, but these two are some of the best. Just though I'd pass this along as I would like to hear what others have done.

Regards

Jim

[Cruzer]

I bought the kit and will soon be installing it. It is more than an air tank. It's a certified air tank, a bunch of hoses and fittings, and a pressure control valve/check valve that ties into the ABS module. The system will isolate your toad brakes in the event that something goes wrong and the line ruptures. You'll still have 6 wheels braking and active ABS plus the air tank will allow your toad brakes to operate without affecting your primary air tank.

Yeah, it is a bit on the pricey side but that's the way it goes with "official" OEM equipment. Everything is certified so that it can legally be installed on a Spartan chassis without affecting warranty or any insurance liability in the event of an accident. Technically it's not legal to modify the air brakes system but this system is certified.

Now, on the other side of the coin, I have run my M&G brake on my last coach with a Spartan MM-GT chassis for many years. I had one breakaway but the M&G applied just fine and the little bit of air that came out of the rear tag axle brake line that I tee'd into didn't make a sizeable difference. Had it been a panic stop and I would have been short a few feet from being unable to hit someone and the insurance investigators got into it, it may have been an issue.

For this coach I'll do it right but if someone else doesn't I wouldn't exactly call them a danger going down the road.

[Spk64]

My Air Force One setup did come with the tank and valves required and SMI does recommend it. It is much more than just a small tank.

https://smibrake.com/towed-vehicle-b...-force-one.php
M&G does not mention it at all on their website. Just scoured over their website this morning.

The extra hardware on the coach is why I went with AF1 over the M&G. But now that I have the coach side I would not be hesitant to use the M&G with it.

Also the AF1 comes with the breakaway kit for the towed vehicle. AF1 cost more but it does come complete.

[Victory Blue]

Originally Posted by MoHoGo

Just found out that Spartan requires a ping tank to be installed on a coach using coach air for a toad braking system. Just so happens that Spartan sells one for around 700 bucks. If you don't use a ping tank it could void warranty issues and with Spartan advising on its use could also have some legal ramifications should there ever be an accident.

One, 700 bucks seems quite high for an air tank reservoir. Just looking at all of the small air compressor tanks out there selling for under 200 bucks seems to reinforce that it a bit out of line.

Two, the additional labor to install it can be a couple hundred bucks.

Three, both the M&G and AF1 have been installed on countless coaches without this tank being an issue.

If this is so critical it really does seem that Spartan should include it on coaches from Entegra as it is really these mid range coaches where you would think an M&G or AF1 would be used. In fact, in thinking about it, Entegra could insist that it be on the chassis.

The info I am getting is that the Newmar coaches on the Spartan will have this on the chassis as a standard item. Not sure if that is fact, but something I will sure look into. If so, where is Entegra stance on this, sure would rather have the tank in lieu of some of the motorized engine cover.

A question I have is there an alternative to getting this from Spartan. You would think that if it is such a major concern that M&G and SMI would be stating this in there literature as a requirement.

I know there are other choices for braking systems, but these two are some of the best. Just though I'd pass this along as I would like to hear what others have done.

Regards

Jim

The Air Force 1 kit includes a ping tank.

[loisjop]

Since the Airforce one brake system is ok'd by Spartan I don't believe they have installed the system in the past without a ping tank. The Airforce one system I currently have was originally installed on an 07 Spartan chassis and it has the ping tank. So I know the AF1 system has had the tank since at least 07. Noel

[757driver]

Lets see. Spend an extra $700.00 for a ping tank to install the M & G system or get the AF-1 which has the ping tank included and is approved by Spartan. A no brainer as far as I am concerned. Glad I went with the AF-1.

[Hayman]

Spartan is not the only chassis manufacturer to " require " a ping tank. We had one on our 09 Tiffin Powerglide chassis w/AF 1.

[Gary.Jones]

I have said before, and will say it again, SMI says that the Spartan tank is not needed, that Spartan approved their design, and that the design was signed off by Spartan before they started to market the system, and SMI's opinion is that Spartan's tank is NOT needed. Now, that is for the Air Force One system. MY installed system has a ping tank which is installed on one of the back steel braces right inside the engine compartment. Now, I don't know anything about the M & G and whether it has a tank or not, but the AFO has one. I'd suggest calling SMI rather than Spartan and talking to their engineers about the whole issue. I did. Calling M & G directly would also be a good idea. If you talk only to Spartan, then you are going to only get their pitch.

Gary

[MoHoGo]

Thanks everyone. I totally missed the fact that SMI does include the PING tank with their system. It also appears that SMI has coordinated nicely with Spartan in designing the system. Not sure which way I will go. NIRVC has a lot of experience with the M&G and because of that I may go with that as I believe that the price delta is only going to be a couple of hundred bucks. When I go down to visit them I will certainly talk in more detail with their service department about the two systems.

Rg & again thanks to all for some great info.

Jim

Originally Posted by MoHoGo

Just found out that Spartan requires a ping tank to be installed on a coach using coach air for a toad braking system. Just so happens that Spartan sells one for around 700 bucks. If you don't use a ping tank it could void warranty issues and with Spartan advising on its use could also have some legal ramifications should there ever be an accident.

One, 700 bucks seems quite high for an air tank reservoir. Just looking at all of the small air compressor tanks out there selling for under 200 bucks seems to reinforce that it a bit out of line.

Two, the additional labor to install it can be a couple hundred bucks.

Three, both the M&G and AF1 have been installed on countless coaches without this tank being an issue.

If this is so critical it really does seem that Spartan should include it on coaches from Entegra as it is really these mid range coaches where you would think an M&G or AF1 would be used. In fact, in thinking about it, Entegra could insist that it be on the chassis.

The info I am getting is that the Newmar coaches on the Spartan will have this on the chassis as a standard item. Not sure if that is fact, but something I will sure look into. If so, where is Entegra stance on this, sure would rather have the tank in lieu of some of the motorized engine cover.

A question I have is there an alternative to getting this from Spartan. You would think that if it is such a major concern that M&G and SMI would be stating this in there literature as a requirement.

I know there are other choices for braking systems, but these two are some of the best. Just though I'd pass this along as I would like to hear what others have done.

Regards

Jim

[loisjop]

Originally Posted by MoHoGo

Thanks everyone. I totally missed the fact that SMI does include the PING tank with their system. It also appears that SMI has coordinated nicely with Spartan in designing the system. Not sure which way I will go. NIRVC has a lot of experience with the M&G and because of that I may go with that as I believe that the price delta is only going to be a couple of hundred bucks. When I go down to visit them I will certainly talk in more detail with their service department about the two systems.

Rg & again thanks to all for some great info.

Jim

Just remember that with the M&G when you trade toads you either have to buy a new unit or trade in your old one for a fee because they are vehicle model specific. I've had both and while the M&G is good the AF1 is at least as good and can be move from toad to toad. Noel

[ghaynes754]

Spartan's Big Mike spoke about the ping tank at the Tampa Supershow. As told he said Spartan developed the system, did not patent it, SMI had full access to the design and also discussed their setup with Spartan. Both parties are happy with either one IF installed properly. There have been forum posting about folks that had the SMI installed and when they did a Spartan factory course found out that the connections to the air lines weren't quite up to snuff.

He also said it is a safety/legal issue. As mentioned above the air lines/braking system is 'certified' and tapping into it with 'legal' hardware might lead to bad juju.

But $700 for the tank sounds way high. Spartan part is S-1628-001 I found one online for $324. https://www.rvchassisparts.com:8443/...is/runApp?id=5

[hogdriver]

Like Gary said above. I bought the Spartan manuf ping tank online for about half the retail price thru a sale at RVChassisParts.com (Spartan's web presence) and paid the local Spartan shop 2 hrs to install it. Believe me, at least on my Anthem, you don't want to shinny up between those axles and install it unless you own a giant diesel service pit.

The story with AF1 is like Gary said. Big Mike, from Spartan, said they didn't patent the design but said it is necessary to meet DOT requirements and had the makers of AF1 follow them around and ask a lot of questions. Previous forum members said Spartan "approved" the AF1 system. That is not true. They just do not Disapprove it as they were merely copied in their design. Someday if AF1 gets involved in some legal issue this may end up the wrong way for some folks.

Ignoring something by Spartan is not necessarily approval.

[Cruzer]

Originally Posted by ghaynes754

Spartan's Big Mike spoke about the ping tank at the Tampa Supershow. As told he said Spartan developed the system, did not patent it, SMI had full access to the design and also discussed their setup with Spartan. Both parties are happy with either one IF installed properly. There have been forum posting about folks that had the SMI installed and when they did a Spartan factory course found out that the connections to the air lines weren't quite up to snuff.

He also said it is a safety/legal issue. As mentioned above the air lines/braking system is 'certified' and tapping into it with 'legal' hardware might lead to bad juju.

But $700 for the tank sounds way high. Spartan part is S-1628-001 I found one online for $324. https://www.rvchassisparts.com:8443/...is/runApp?id=5

I bought my kit when at Spartan. It was $309.00.

[jmcarter]

Haven't called M&G but assume the Spartan tank works equally well with their system vs. the SMI. Anybody hear to the contrary?