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Old 02-08-2013, 07:45 AM   #15
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Tom, according to the TRC website all their units do stop surges/spikes, but I some do not have remote readout. Do you know the model number which is being installed by Entegra? Some of their models have the remote as an option. If that is the case why not just add the remote to the factory-installed unit? By the way I have had a Progressive in my coach for 10 years and it has been excellent in every regard.

Again according to TRC their unit has a high voltage/low voltage cutoff feature, which is just what the Progressive has. Neither unit will regulate voltage. It is just a kind of circuit breaker, which disconnects if voltage is too high or low. If you want voltage regulation you need something altogether different. TRC has a Surge Guard Voltage Regulator which boosts low voltage, this might be the best choice for an add-on. Although it is a bit expensive, so is voltage damage.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:58 AM   #16
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So, this may be why the Entegra engineers believe the TRC unit provides adequate protection.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:23 AM   #17
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This is probably over-kill but makes for interesting reading: "Autoformers are designed to increase voltage to your RV and help eliminate low voltage damage to your appliances. Unlike a 'boost transformer', the 'sense circuit' in the Autoformer will adjust the output based on the load demand. For this reason you can run additional appliances on a 30 amp input. I.e.: coffee pot & microwave each draw 1200 watts, total 2400 watts. Add wattage for the converter & refrigerator - about 800 additional watts - & you have 3200 watt demand. If you are only getting 100 volts from the supply, the maximum wattage would be 3000 watts. The Autoformer will boost voltage to give you 3600 watts to your RV!"

Hughes Autoformers ::

Entegra needs to come out and say one way or another if their installed surge protector is all that is needed...
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:31 PM   #18
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That's basically the message I've ask Ted Cook to confirm. If I don't get a response by Monday, after our earlier exchange, I'll call him, or ask him to read this thread and respond.
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:05 PM   #19
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Well don't get too upset. When I bought my new Beaver it had no surge protection at all. One of the first things I did was install a Progressive surge protector, but Beaver didn't do anything of the sort.
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:20 PM   #20
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The Progressive Industries surge protector is the best money you will ever spend on your coach, no matter which model or brand you own. There is currently no manufacturer that has the protection from surges or open neutrals built into the coach that compares with P.I's protection.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:28 AM   #21
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Without a doubt the Progressive EMS HW 50C is the ultimate surge protection. While researching surge protection for articles in FMCA Magazine and RV Magazine I got to learn pretty well what was all out there.

One thing to keep in mind is that TRCI makes a number of Surge Guard models so it's pretty hard to state something like "Surge Guard doesn't have ......". It really depends on the model.

The popular 34560 is a 50 amp model that covers low and high voltage as well as providing 3850 joules of surge protection. It can be fitted with a remote display as well. In that regard it's similar to the Progressive unit although I found the Surge Guard to be difficult to wire. It's tough to fit the #6 wire into the small lugs. Also, it's not field repairable while Progressive has those two areas covered. But, the protection is similar to the Progressive.

However, I'm going to guess that Entegra is not using this unit. Most RV manufacturers install a Surge Guard automatic transfer switch, which features surge protection. This replaces any standard transfer switch so the manufacturere isn't adding something. They are just replacing something with something better. Usually this is the Surge Guard model 41260, which is a 50 amp transfer switch that has 2600 joules of surge protection. This is the same model that Tiffin is now installing. This is minimal and not as good as the Progressive or 34560 Surge Guard units. It also does not have low or high voltage protrection. They also make a model 40100, which is even less protection. Surge Guard also offers a model 40250-RVC unit, which has 3350 joules and does offer low and high voltage. This higher end transfer switch also features can-bus communication so it can communicate to any RVC protocol device and display the voltage readouts on any RVC display. I doubt if this is being used by Entegra.

Here's what I'm guessing as happened:

From Entegra's standpoint they were probably told by a TRC sales rep that the 41260 provides adequate surge protection so that's why Entegra feels that a buyer doesn't need anything extra. However, they were not told that low voltage is the biggest killer of coach electronics nor that the 41260 doesn't provide that protection. This is where the misunderstanding lies.

Personally, if I was Entegra I'd just use a standard transfer switch and use the Progressive unit with the remote display. That way you would be setting the standard and affording adequate protection to the coach electronics.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:48 AM   #22
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Thanks Mark. Great input. Entegra could start installing Progressive's EMS-HW50C starting on Monday if they wanted to. The dollar differnece is minimal. I would suggest anyone ordering a new Entegra insist that the HW5C has to be installed before delivery. Let's see how Entegra handles this one. If they are the company I think they are they'll make the switch sooner rather than later...
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:26 AM   #23
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Can someone who has an 2013 Entegra please advise what model TRC unit is installed?
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:47 AM   #24
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This should be an easy question for the manufacturer to answer and I am disappointed by all the confusion. I realize we do not have the inside info from all the MOHO manufacturers, but would think they would have engineers designing the electrical systems and wouldn't base their design on a sales rep. info. (I realize Mark doesn't speak for the manufacturers, but is probably accurate with his assumption).

I also agree the first manufacturer to install a surge, open neutral, under/over voltage protection system (HW-50 or equivalent), would be leading the industry and displaying innovation. Since they would be buying in bulk, the cost would be insignificant.

Luckily for the rest of us, the units are relatively inexpensive and easy install.

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Old 02-11-2013, 10:21 AM   #25
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Do all Entegra's come with surge protectors? I looked at the standard equipment on an Aspire and it doesn't list it. Thanks
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:39 PM   #26
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Entegra Surge Protector

My 13 Aspire has a TRC 41260 factory installed.

50A Hardwires | Technology Research Corporation

I would prefer the EMS model, but I'm not going to rip this one out to buy another.....at least until the warranty is over.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:49 PM   #27
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The TRC 41260 will not montor High or Low voltage.
Thats why we added the progressive hard wired unit.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:44 PM   #28
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OK, so I'll bite. Read the surge guard link which says:

The Surge Guard line of automatic transfer switches ensures continuous power to your coach by monitoring shore power and automatically switching to generator power when it detects electrical issues that could impact performance of equipment in your motorhome

So if thats the case and it switches to gen power, which I take to mean the battery, how does low voltage cause an issue? Or does that occur once the battery has run out? Or will it put all your electrics to battery and then charge through the invertor chargers? Seems logical to me that if you don't have enough voltage in that your stuff runs off the battery while the invertor recharges? But I'm sure its not that simple? Maybe when you are drawing a heavy load?

Need someone smarter than me to explain? Thx!
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