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Old 03-17-2017, 04:28 AM   #1
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What is considered a "FULL" Charge ?

We have a 2012 Insignia, when connected to shore power my magnum display will show 12.8 volts as a Full charge. (sometimes 13.0) I replaced the 4 house batteries 2 years ago with flooded Trojan T105's. When I installed them I changed my settings but cannot remember to what. I think it was something specifically for the Trojan batteries. At that time I think it used to show a higher voltage as a full charge.

However when we were at the mothership last August and they changed my settings to (see attached)

So my question is 12.8 volts full charge? If not what is, and should I change my settings.
Thank you for your help
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:33 AM   #2
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I have this laminated and on the wall of the inverter cabinet. That way I know at a glance what my battery condition is. I have my charge rate set at 90% instead of 80%. At 80% I was not getting a full charge and my batteries would not make it through the night.

Don should be along and is the expert on inverter/charger setups.
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:23 AM   #3
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What is the reason for setting charge rate at 80% versus 90 or 100% with AGM batteries, which are said to accept a very high rate of charge? Faster charge rate would mean less generator run time.
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:26 AM   #4
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What is the reason for setting charge rate at 80% versus 90 or 100% with AGM batteries, which are said to accept a very high rate of charge? Faster charge rate would mean less generator run time.
I read that he has flooded batteries.
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:33 AM   #5
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Trojan Battery lists 12.73 volts as full charged. Anything above is a surface charge.

To accurately read a batteries voltage, it need to sit unused for an hour or more. If there is any activity, the voltage readings will be off.

This is why battery monitors are helpful if off grid living. It gives a clear picture of battery state of charge.
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:37 AM   #6
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What is the reason for setting charge rate at 80% versus 90 or 100% with AGM batteries, which are said to accept a very high rate of charge? Faster charge rate would mean less generator run time.
It was explained to me by Don, 757driver, that 80% was not fully charged. I could not make it through the night at that setting. At 100% he said he could smell "hot batteries" and turned it back to 90%, I followed his lead.
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:48 AM   #7
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I read that he has flooded batteries.
Understood, but most Entegras have AGMs.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:11 AM   #8
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I have flooded house batteries and I believe the full charge is @ 12.6 volts
When I unplug it hovers around 13 volts for a minute then down around 12.6 which is its true full charge.
I think agm batteries are a higher rate like 12.8
Don will hopefully explain it way better ....
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:48 AM   #9
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It was explained to me by Don, 757driver, that 80% was not fully charged. I could not make it through the night at that setting. At 100% he said he could smell "hot batteries" and turned it back to 90%, I followed his lead.

The charge rate is an adjustment to the chargers maximum output. A 120 amp charger set at 80% would only output a max of 96 amps.

The amp output needs to be lowered, in some cases, so you don't overheat the batteries, when they are low.

It does not change the voltage set points. Voltage is what the charger looks at, to charge a battery to 100% capacity.


Lifeline AGM recommends a minimum of 20 amps per 100 AH for batteries regularly cycled.

If you have 400 AH then 80 amps or more would be fine.

They also mention that they can be charged at 5 times the capacity but you would need a huge charger for that.

You need to research YOUR batteries and charging output, to know what rate to use.

I will caution you that, I've heard that AGM batteries do not respond well to repeated partial recharges.

Lifeline says to charge to full capacity frequently.
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:16 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by MRUSA14 View Post
What is the reason for setting charge rate at 80% versus 90 or 100% with AGM batteries, which are said to accept a very high rate of charge? Faster charge rate would mean less generator run time.
Marc,

You are correct, the higher the charge rate the quicker the batteries will be charged and thus less generator run time. When batteries are heavily charged they heat up. Too much heat even for AGM batteries is not good. To show how much heat is generated look at your BTS (battery temp sensor) under the TECH button before you start charging the batteries and check the same reading an hour or so later. For a discharged battery the reading will be higher after an hour.

With most flooded batteries the industry average for rate of charge is 10-15% of the C20 rating so a 400 AH battery pack should be charged at 40-60 AH. If you have a Magnum 2812 inverter it has a 125 amp charger in it. The charge rate for this inverter should be set to 40-50% of the chargers rated output. If it is set much higher you get much more gassing and excessive heating.

For the Discover AGM batteries ( and most other AGM batteries) they can tolerate a higher rate of charge to a point. Discover recommends a charge rate of up to 25% of the C20 rating so an 800 AH battery pack in an Anthem or Cornerstone could be charged at 200AH. For the two Magnum inverters the total charge capacity is 125 AH plus 100 AH for a potential total of 225 AH. If set to 100% rate of charge the batteries are being charged at 28% of the C20 rating which is a little high. This is why I recommend a 90% rate of charge setting in the Magnum inverter panel for an Anthem or Cornerstone. 90% gives you 202.5 AH max.
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CampDavid View Post
We have a 2012 Insignia, when connected to shore power my magnum display will show 12.8 volts as a Full charge. (sometimes 13.0) I replaced the 4 house batteries 2 years ago with flooded Trojan T105's. When I installed them I changed my settings but cannot remember to what. I think it was something specifically for the Trojan batteries. At that time I think it used to show a higher voltage as a full charge.

However when we were at the mothership last August and they changed my settings to (see attached)

So my question is 12.8 volts full charge? If not what is, and should I change my settings.
Thank you for your help
David,

When your Magnum inverter panel shows the words "Full Charge" this is telling you that the charger has turned OFF and sitting at the ready to start Float charging again when the displayed voltage drops to 12.6v. When that happens the charger will turn back on at the Float charge setting for 4 hours and then switch off once again. A Trojan T-105 is fully charged at 12.73v but this is with a battery at rest which when the coach is in use the batteries are never at rest so this is a somewhat useless number.

Are your batteries being fully charged? In my opinion not totally. The battery type that Entegra suggested, "Flooded" is giving you an Absorb voltage of 14.6v, Float of 13.4v, and an Equalize of 15.5v. Trojan recommends an Absorb of 14.8v, Float of 13.5v, and an Equalize of 16.2v, so your settings could be better with a Custom setting instead of the generic Flooded setting.

Trojan recommends a charge rate for the T-105's of 10-13% of the C20 capacity. Your C20 capacity is 450 AH so 10-13% of this would be 45-58.5AH. If you have the Magnum 2812 inverter with a 125 amp charger this would equate to a charge rate of 40-50%. Your setting of 80% as recommended by Entegra is too high and will cause excessive heat, gassing and water loss.

I do not know if your inverter panel sets an Absorb time or if you enter a battery capacity Amp Hour setting. At the proper above listed charge rate of 40-50% for the T-105's you will need to increase your Absorb time to 2.0 hours or battery capacity size to 500AH to get the proper Absorb time.

Let me know if you have any further questions.
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:13 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by lowejug View Post
I have flooded house batteries and I believe the full charge is @ 12.6 volts
When I unplug it hovers around 13 volts for a minute then down around 12.6 which is its true full charge.
I think agm batteries are a higher rate like 12.8
Don will hopefully explain it way better ....
Most flooded batteries are fully charged at 12.7v OCV (open circuit voltage) while the Discover AGM batteries are fully charged at 12.9v. Depending on what is being drawn from the batteries at the time you unplug they should not drop to 12.6v too quickly. If relatively no load on the batteries it should take a while to drop to 12.6v. If not the batteries may be starting to show signs of age or they are not being charged properly.
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:31 PM   #13
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It was explained to me by Don, 757driver, that 80% was not fully charged. I could not make it through the night at that setting. At 100% he said he could smell "hot batteries" and turned it back to 90%, I followed his lead.
Chuck,

The proper voltage is what will get your batteries fully charged in conjunction with the proper charge rate (as recommended by the battery manufacturer) and applying that charge rate for the proper amount of time (in the Absorb phase) to get the battery bank to 98-100% charge before switching to Float to maintain that 100% charge. If the battery manufacturer recommends a lower charge rate ( as compared to another manufacturer) then the Absorb time will need to be longer to get to the same end point.

If one were to replace their AGM batteries in an Anthem or a Cornerstone with flooded batteries they would not be able to take full advantage of the combined chargers output of 225 AH. With the same size battery bank approx. 800 amps the charge rate would have to be reduced from 90% to 50% on each inverter so as not to overheat the flooded batteries and thus have to increase the Absorb time from around 2.5 or 3.0 hours to at least 4.0- 5.0 hours.
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:49 PM   #14
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David,

When your Magnum inverter panel shows the words "Full Charge" this is 14.6v, Float of 13.4v, and an Equalize of 15.5v. Trojan recommends an Absorb of 14.8v, Float of 13.5v, and an Equalize of 16.2v, so your settings could be better with a Custom setting instead of the generic Flooded setting.

If you have theMagnum 2812 inverter with a 125 amp charger this would equate to a charge rate of 40-50%. Your setting of 80% as recommended by Entegra is too high and will cause excessive heat, gassing and water loss.

I do not know if your inverter panel sets an Absorb time or if you enter a battery capacity Amp Hour setting. At the proper above listed charge rate of 40-50% for the T-105's you will need to increase your Absorb time to 2.0 hours or battery capacity size to 500AH to get the proper Absorb time.

Let me know if you have any further questions.
Don thank you so much for your help. However I have a ME2012 Inverter that I believe is only a 100 amp charger. (see below)Also here is a shot of my batteries

How would that change your advise on the proper settings for my Insignia.
Thank you again for your help
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