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Old 06-14-2017, 09:39 PM   #1
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DEF consumption

Have been seriously considering a View or Itasca Navion but have a few questions. This will be our 4th motorhome, the last being a pre-DEF diesel pusher. Am comfortable with the Winnebago product but am somewhat confused about DEF. I know what it is, and its function but in asking the salesman how much is used for example on a 300-mile trip, his answer was "Depends on how you drive." Yep, I knew that. How much does it cost? His answer was: "You can buy it at Wal-Mart for about a dollar a gallon."

I see where Pilot/Flying J has a dispenser on the fuel island, and their posted price is $2.89 - $2.99 depending upon the location. My local Wal-Mart does not have the one-gallon jug, but a 2 1/2 gallon at $11.52. A local auto parts store has it for $6.75 per gallon.

So my question is, under normal driving conditions, how much DEF would be used on a 300-mile trip. I would be interested to know in order to approximate my 'dollars-per-mile' cost calculation. The salesman could not tell me what the DEF tank capacity was, or if there was a quantity indicator. He said there was an indicator "similar to a low fuel light". When asked what the range was when the light came on, he didn't know.

I once worked with a guy who said he would never buy a "pig in a poke" and I feel the same. I'm sure there are experts hanging out here who can answer my questions.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:19 PM   #2
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I find the 2.5 Gal. jugs/boxes with a spout convenient at that $10-12 ea. point. I'll do it when I check / top-off other fluids.
Filling at a bulk dispenser is cheaper, but may or may not be convenient depending on your filler location and or the station configuration, congestion.
Our experience has been about 2.37% of overall fuel consumption. Think I've read a couple white papers where mfr's claim it could be 3%.
It's basically urea and de-ionized water. It's not very UV stable so it's recommended to keep stored bottles out of direct sunlight. It probably will freeze. So they ship new vehicles less than full. I imagine the reservoirs might have a heating element or are situated where engine / exhaust system heat will thaw them out.
Our reservoir holds approx. 5.5 gal. All are configured differently.
Although there is no level gauge on the reservoir The DIC alerts us at approx. 25% which offers maybe 600-1000 mi. range before issue. That's usually when I'll add a 2.5 Gal. box. Pretty UN-eventful.
We don't really find it a big deal. YMMV
Best of luck on your quest.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:42 PM   #3
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The sales person did a great job in discouraging you and that should not have happened.

I can take a trip from Fayetteville, NC, to JC, NewJersey, 515 miles, and back again and not use half of me 15 gallon tank.

How ever I will keep it topped off as best I can when ever it is convenient. So when I stop for fuel on the return trip, and the DEF pump is not too hard to get to, I buy DEF at the pump in that truck stop. I prefer buying DEF at the truck stops from the pump.

I did keep a two gallon jug of it on board but I find I need that room for other things more.

Dispensing DEF can be a pain sometimes, so I would encourage anyone to keep a jug empty or full with you on your travels. It's easer to pump it into a jug and then into your tank at some locations.

Your coach has an indicator that is easy to see in close proximity to your fuel gauge and you will most likely never run too low before you find a source to refill.

Hope that info helps

DTW
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:48 PM   #4
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On my Chevy 3500 I have just over 10,000 miles on it, 75% pulling something. It came with a full ~5 gallon tank. I have since added either 5 or 7.5 gallons to it.

Mine does not have a gauge, but a partial warning. Until it is down to about 25-30% it will only say "OK". After that it shows the %, why it can't show that all the time I have no idea.

I have not added to mine until the % comes on. On mine there is no good way to see how full it is. If you spill there is nothing to catch it. So easier to put 1 jug in and run for a few thousand more miles.

I can get the 2.5 gallon jugs at my local store for about $7.
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Old 06-15-2017, 06:42 AM   #5
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I have a 13 gal DEF tank in my Phaeton that was full when I bought the rig. It is now a little over 1/4 full and I've put a bit over 2000 miles on it. So the rough math would be 2000/(13X.25) = 615mi/gal.

It really uses very little DEF. I've filled the 100 gal fuel tank four times and only now need DEF. I'll add it when I fill it again.
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Old 06-15-2017, 04:00 PM   #6
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2016 and later Sprinters have a DEF gauge that can be displayed on the DIC. I added DEF after my first 4000 miles and it took less than 2 gallons to refill the tank. Your 300 mile trip will barely register. Diesel engines consumption rate of DEF is directly dependent on the displacement of the engine. At 3 liters, your engine is 1/3 the size of the engines in most motorhomes and OTR trucks and DEF consumption is tiny in comparison.
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Old 06-15-2017, 06:57 PM   #7
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Typically $7.88 fir 2.5 jug at Walmart in the Walmart brand. Works great. Lots if folks using it. Biggest problem is that Wal-Mart is often out if stock. Carry a spare jug and rotate the spare for a fresh jug when refilling. It has a shelf life of about one year.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:02 PM   #8
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DEF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtwallace View Post
The sales person did a great job in discouraging you and that should not have happened.
You're right, Dtwallace. Don't know why salespeople can't be straight with a prospective customer. A lot of questions he chose not to answer, so he probably lost a sale. There's more than one dealer around to buy from.
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Old 06-15-2017, 08:12 PM   #9
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I think it's because either they don't OWN a DEF vehicle themselves, and don't really know what it's really about, or they don't own an RV that uses it. RV salesmen/women are mostly in business to sale RVs, which doesn't require any experience actually OWNING and LIVING IN an RV for any extended travel. They also may sale so many different varieties and styles of vehicles that it's tough for them to 'know' everything about every vehicle. I would rather someone tell me that they are not sure about my question, than to just utter some nonsense that they 'think' they heard(but are not really sure about!).

I you think about it, and compare the size of the diesel fuel tank, 90-100 gallons on most Class A larger coaches, the relatively small 10-12 gallon size of the def tank should tell you something. I would use the 5% rule if you must 'guess' at a usage for your budgeting, though it might actually be much less, maybe 2%. I don't know that there is any 'rule' to how it is used compared to driving habits, but you might also assume that 'lead foots' are going to use a little more than most, comparatively.

We've always used the 2 1/2 gallon Supertech DEF blue jug from Wmt, always $7.88 no matter when or where you buy it, as long as they have it in stock. It is 'hidden' many times on the bottom shelf, where it also blends in a little too well with all the other jugs. Just take a cart with you as the jug is heavy, especially since it's in the back of the store.

I can go THOUSANDS of miles before needed to worry about filling again, though I typically carry a jug just in case. We hit so many Wmt in our travels that it's SELDOM a worry, or thought, or concern. I may get a few extra on the way to Alaska, though : )
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Old 06-16-2017, 05:00 PM   #10
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In my Sprinter chassis Prism I can go at least 4000 miles when my DEF tank is full (fluid visible from fill cap) before the dash light comes on to add DEF. That's about 2+ gallons. If you DO get the add DEF light, you need to add at least 2.5 gal to make it go out.
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Old 06-16-2017, 05:02 PM   #11
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RedT,

Did we answer your questions? I just came back from a 900+ mile trip and according to my DEF gauge I didn't use enough to register on the gauge.

The Mercedes system holds enough DEF for a 10-12000 mile trip. The system will warn you that you need to fill the tank. If you don't do it, it will limit the number of starts you have left before it goes into limp mode. You will have plenty of opportunity to fill the DEF tank as the fuel tank is only 28 gallons. In fact, you will be stopping every 280-300 miles or so for fuel.

There are more sources for Sprinter information than IRV2 - Sprinter-source.com, and the Winnebago View/Navion groups on yahoo groups.
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Old 06-17-2017, 07:05 AM   #12
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DEF consumption

Yes, my questions have been answered thanks to the input from people on IRV2! A great source of information.
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Old 06-21-2017, 11:32 AM   #13
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We just did a 4700 mile trip without adding DEF once. I tested once and was running about a liter every 600 miles. That seemed high so I took it to MB dealer. They tested, calibrated, tested some more, and said my usage was 'normal'. So I've not quite figured it out yet. I'm a little leery of the "wait until you get the message" method, but the dealer swears that is better than continually topping it off.
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Old 06-21-2017, 11:34 AM   #14
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So how many gallons does the Sprinter tank hold? Anybody know?
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