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Old 05-31-2019, 07:48 AM   #1
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AGS not working

I own a 2014 Thor Palazzo 33.2 RV and the Automatic Generator Start has never worked correctly. It is equipped with an ME Series version 5.4 Modified Sine Wave Inverter, ME-RC version 2.7 Standard Remote Contrl, ME-AGS-N version 5.3 Automatic Generator Start, and ME-BMK version 1.0 Battery Monitor Kit. When I run the AGS test function, the system goes through its 2 priming steps for the generator but then rather than starting the generator it just makes a very brief (~ 0.1 sec) attempt at starting then stops. However, using the manual generator start switch on the dash immediately after this, the generator starts right up. It does the same thing if I enable the AGS for either voltage or temperature when the triggering parameters are met. Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this?
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:40 AM   #2
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Hi,
We have a 2015 33.3 and it does the same thing.
One day, I started the generator with the dash switch and let it run a few minutes, then I tried the test function and it started fine. But that doesn't make me feel good about it starting on its own when I need it to with our 3 miniature schnauzers inside on a hot day. Hoping to get good info on how to resolve the issue.
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:48 AM   #3
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AGS not working

Well, I was able to track the problem down. In my case there was a tiny AC input breaker on the inverter that had popped out. I reset it and all appears to be working correctly now. I found the solution in section 6.2.2.1 of the ME-AGS-N owners manual. I hope that fixes it for good.
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Old 05-31-2019, 12:06 PM   #4
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Thanks Greg,
I will check out mine tomorrow. Hopefully it will be as easy as resetting the AC input breaker.

Bob F.
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Old 05-31-2019, 03:45 PM   #5
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That AC breaker only comes to play when generator is already running and supplying AC voltage, so I don't think it will fix AGS starting issue. The problem is that when generator starter is energized it creates major voltage drop in the positive wire from the house battery to the generator. But the same wire also goes to the AGS for sensing battery voltage, and also most importantly, as a power supply for the electronics inside the AGS. This voltage drop resets AGS and nothing works. The fix I used is to separate starter and AGS sensing/supply wires. In order to do that I wired AGS to chassis battery (AGS pin 3 to one of the fuses in the front compartment under the driver's seat). So AGS senses chassis battery voltage an uses it as a power supply. Chassis battery is not affected by generator start and voltage remains stable during start. I do not need AGS to sense house battery voltage because I use AGS on State of Charge to start generator, so it will not work for everybody (without BMK module installed). I have 2015 33.2 and other years and models may have different wiring.
Mike
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Old 05-31-2019, 05:41 PM   #6
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Hi Mike,

I think I was too quick in announcing that my AGS was working properly. After reading your post I went back out to test the AGS and it didn't work again. I'm now looking into using your solution as a fix. I am hesitant to use it because my unit doesn't appear capable of being started on SOC so I will have to rely on the monitored voltage. I was thinking that another work around would be to leave the AGS as originally wired but change the wiring to the generator starter so it's current would come from the chassis batteries rather than the house batteries. Did you consider using that approach?

Greg
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:04 PM   #7
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Greg, I did consider it for a moment, but that would require running new heavy gauge cables and I did not want to do that. It probably would work just fine too. I believe chassis battery positive is at the lower left corner of the firewall. You would have to run from there to the back of the generator where its DC terminals are. The existing cable would have to be disconnected there, as well as at the terminal in the front driver compartment. Just make sure cable goes to the generator only and not anywhere else. There also should be cable for hydraulic jacks, but I think it is in the compartment at the connection post and not on the generator.
Let us know how it worked.
Mike
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:38 AM   #8
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Darn,
I was hoping for a quick solution. On our 33.3 when I ran the generator start test, the generator would try to start a few times and then quit.

I then started the generator with the dash switch. I let it run a couple minutes and shut it down.

Then I went to the Magnum panel and did the test start for the generator again and it started up. Strange.
I will continue to look at it.

I plan to tackle changing out the engine air filter this weekend. Hopefully it is an easy job.

Bob
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:00 AM   #9
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Everyone seems to be going down some very deep trails with this. The Onan QD will have a very long prime and preheat on the first AM start. When you test the AGS listen to the generator, you will hear a clicking before cranking. This can go on 30 seconds. The AGS May simply be timing out on start cycle prior to starter engaging. In many cases the AGS will pause two minutes and then try to crank again. If you start the generator manually and then it starts via AGS this is likely your issue. If your AGS does not have a second attempt, your only recourses would be new software or preheat gen before. It usually starts quicker later after initial prime and run. I
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Old 06-01-2019, 08:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corc View Post
Everyone seems to be going down some very deep trails with this. The Onan QD will have a very long prime and preheat on the first AM start. When you test the AGS listen to the generator, you will hear a clicking before cranking. This can go on 30 seconds. The AGS May simply be timing out on start cycle prior to starter engaging. In many cases the AGS will pause two minutes and then try to crank again. If you start the generator manually and then it starts via AGS this is likely your issue. If your AGS does not have a second attempt, your only recourses would be new software or preheat gen before. It usually starts quicker later after initial prime and run. I



This afternoon I tried the AGS test again.


It would do the clicking for the 20-30 seconds, then it tries to start and the starter would try to crank the engine but only for about 1 second and then stop.

I did not wait to see if it would try to start again. I just set it again for test and pressed the button and had the same results each time.
I did this 3 or 4 times.

I was able to start it with the generator switch on the dash and it started very easily.



I guess I will need to call magnum, explain the situation and hopefully they can help me get it fixed.



I am open to any other ideas to try.
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Old 06-02-2019, 11:47 AM   #11
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Hi Mike,

I think you were right about the root cause of my problem being a voltage drop when the generator starter kicked in causing the AGS to reset. The technical specialist at Magnum Energy also thought it sounded like the cause might be low DC voltage to the AGS module. It never made much sense to me to have the batteries that were being monitored as the electrical source for starting the generator so I decided to change that. I began by tracing the cable from the back of the generator into the compartment underneath the driver's seat and confirmed that it had no other connections. I disconnected the end from the terminal and pulled it back underneath the RV to reroute it toward the chassis battery terminal at the lower left side of the firewall. I was fortunate that the cable was just long enough to reach the chassis battery terminal so after disconnecting the chassis batteries I attached the generator's cable to that terminal. I double checked all my connections and turned the chassis batteries back on. It now works correctly and I don't see any downside of using this wiring configuration.

My AGS still monitors the coach batteries and temperature but it now uses the chassis batteries to start the generator and everything seems to work as it should. Thank you for your advice!
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Old 06-02-2019, 03:46 PM   #12
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Hello mike & Greg.


Greg as I read about your fix, I have a question. Did you basically run a 12 volt positive lead from the chassis battery source to the #3 input on the ME-AGS-N so it always has a 12 volt feed from the chassis batteries instead of the coach batteries ?
Please let me know if I am wrong.


thanks,


Bob
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Old 06-02-2019, 08:25 PM   #13
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Hi Bob,

No, I did not change any leads into the inputs of the ME-AGS-N. I believe Mike did change the lead into the #3 input so that it came from the chassis battery bank instead of the coach's battery bank. However, that approach changes which battery bank is being monitored by the AGS. In his case it didn't matter because he was using SOC rather than the voltage of the coach's battery bank as the parameter for automatically starting. Since I wanted to keep the voltage of the coach's battery bank as the parameter for the auto start I left all the leads into the ME-AGS-N as they were. I just changed which battery bank supplies the starting voltage to the generator. So my setup still monitors the voltage from the coach's battery bank but whenever the AGS senses that the voltage is getting low and tells the generator to start, the generator's starter gets its juice from the chassis battery bank instead of the coach's battery bank.

Doing this was pretty simple. There is a large positive battery cable attached to the rear of the generator and connected to the coach's battery bank terminal in the forward compartment under the driver. I detached the cable from the coach's battery bank terminal and rerouted it so I could reattach it to the terminal for the chassis battery bank located on the lower left hand part of the firewall.

I hope this answers your question.

Greg
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Old 06-02-2019, 08:30 PM   #14
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Thanks, i will give it a try
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