Would you buy a Palazzo again?

[ABrask]

Hi Bob.... Sorry for the length of this post, but if you're serious about considering a Palazzo, it might be helpful. Every time this topic comes up on these forums, the same range of experiences tend to be reflected in the responses. Some of us have had nothing but wonderful experiences with their Palazzos, and others had nothing but bad. I think it's important to point out, however, that while downsizing to a less complicated but equally expensive coach will reduce the number of potential failure points, it will also reduce the number of creature comforts. Likewise, choosing a different brand of RV will not necessarily mean all the hardware, accessories and systems will be different.

Slides not withstanding (Schwintek is by far the most common slide mechanism across all brands of motorhomes/5th wheels/trailers, so it's probably shouldn't be unexpected that there would be a greater likelihood of bad experiences reported), the other systems subject to failure (inverters, water heaters, air conditioners, refrigerators, relays, water pumps, etc.) are almost always sourced from third parties. Then there are the chassis themselves...Freightliner, Ford, Spartan being the most common). One owner might swear by a particular manufacturer, while the other will have nothing but problems. Therefore, it's not overly helpful to "blame" any particular RV manufacturer for failures associated with engines and chassis systems, since a buyer can't really avoid accepting at least one of the choices as their platform.

I frequently see folks complain about things failing in their new RVs that have very little to do with the brand or manufacturer of the RV itself. That's not to say that it isn't annoying when it happens to you, but there are reasons why some RVs are more expensive than others.... While it's true that a manufacturer could source a more expensive component, that would also add to the price. In the case of the Palazzo, it just happens to be one of the least expensive coaches in its class. I paid $120K for mine (used), and I have to accept the fact that it does't have the same level of surfaces and fixtures as my brother-in-laws $400K palace. (Although his has the same Schwintek slide mechanisms, air conditioners, and other components ours has.)

All that said, there are definitely differences in the consistency of assembly and fit and finish between coach brands (and in some cases between two units off the same production line). When RV manufacturers allow coaches to leave their factories with screws loose, plumbing fittings cross threaded, mis-wired electrical systems, and other quality control-related problems), they deserve every bit of criticism they receive. We've seen Palazzos at RV shows and on dealer showrooms with obvious flaws (can't say for sure they left the factory that way, but it's hard to believe the dealer didn't fix them) that we simply didn't experience on our particular unit. Had we had to go back to dealer with a lot of those sorts of problems to fix under warranty, I'd be irritated as well.

Which brings up dealers, and perhaps this is the most important thing you should consider. I hear all the time that people have had their RVs sit at a dealer for months while they wait for warranty repairs. Frequently, the excuse given is they are "waiting for parts." I don't understand this, and I would be absolutely fried if I was told that, as well. To be fair, we haven't had any major problems with our coach that required us to return to the dealer for a major repair, but when we've needed parts, our dealer (TotalValue RV in Elkhart, IN) has been able to ship them within 24 hours. That may be because they're right down the street from Thor, but I have a hard time believing it takes other dealers weeks or months to get parts. I'm thinking this is simply procrastination and incompetency on the part of the dealer, which means your own experience is probably going to have a great deal to do with who you buy from. Can't help with that problem, but can at least suggest that any problem or repair that can be handled through Freightliner (in the case of the Palazzo) should be. And, if you're anywhere within a 1,000 mile radius of Elkhart, I'd take any major warranty repairs to Thor themselves before allowing a dealer to keep my coach for weeks or months to accomplish the same thing.

[NettieRegina]

Originally Posted by ABrask

I frequently see folks complain about things failing in their new RVs that have very little to do with the brand or manufacturer of the RV itself. That's not to say that it isn't annoying when it happens to you, but there are reasons why some RVs are more expensive than others.... While it's true that a manufacturer could source a more expensive component, that would also add to the price. In the case of the Palazzo, it just happens to be one of the least expensive coaches in its class. I paid $120K for mine (used), and I have to accept the fact that it does't have the same level of surfaces and fixtures as my brother-in-laws $400K palace. (Although his has the same Schwintek slide mechanisms, air conditioners, and other components ours has.

The problem I see is that you can't find a high-quality 35-foot mid-entrance diesel. It would be like trying to find a premium quality sub-compact car. I would have gladly paid much more for a unit to avoid many of the problems I had in common with RV8 but the option wasn't there; you buy a sub-compact - you get sub-compact quality.

But that's only half of the problem. At least when you buy the sub-compact car you're not usually faced with outrageous quality control issues because the auto industry has adjusted its pricing to accommodate qc processes, and their warranties reflect that.

So, RVs are a small-volume industry with highly motivated customers. As this web site demonstrates these customers are so motivated that they accept, and in some cases even celebrate operational break-downs as being "part of the game".

I previously owned a 26 foot fifth-wheel trailer manufactured by General Coach in Oliver BC, ironically a company then owned by Thor. It was expensive for its size but the components and quality were excellent. We used it for 20 years with no significant mechanical failures. I realize it was a much less complex system that the motorhome, but at least we didn't feel like we were in a 1966 Lada.

"Would you buy your Palazzo again?" MY PALAZZO, definitely not. I'd prefer a Palazzo that rolled off the assembly line on a different day.

If I could go back in time armed with what I know now I might not have replaced my fifth-wheel with a motorhome. But for now I have a Palazzo with a floor plan that I love, with handling characteristics I love but which keeps me awake nights with worry about what's coming next.

[Robtx]

Flawed design:
My Palazzo 33.2 is out of balance with front left 600+ pounds heavier than the right, and the right rear 1000+ pounds heavier than the left causing out of level. With the 3 point air suspension adjustment Freightliner was unable to level the vehicle. The right rear carries the house and chassis batteries and a small slide with drawers closet and dressing table, balanced on the left by the DEF tank and open space. Available interior storage is located on heavy corners and using it makes the out of balance worse!


Thor advertises the low clearance height of 12 feet but does not advertise the nose is close to the ground you are likely to damage it eventually.

Converter float charging at 12.9 volts. 13 volts required to retract jacks (assumes other jack problems are fixed).


Thor support:
First long trip with crazy jack behavior requiring jack retract with drill and no access to drill to pump motor without 90 degree drill attachment and blind access to valves with Allen wrench plus electrical and shades falling off 1332 miles from home and 1 hour from Thor. End off June. Thor says we can make an appointment for AUGUST! I opined Thor support must be under staffed. Got 10 minute lecture including how dare you want to cut in front of people who made July appointments last April. How do you spell UNDER STAFFED SUPPORT? Business model = “Make support so painful customer will do the repair themselves.” On the other hand if you manage to get contact information to bypass the concierge you can jump the queue – if Thor can find a contractor willing to do the work.

Shoddy build:
Way too much to list here but included missing seat belt, shades falling down, debris falling out of A/C vents and 3 rail slide that makes very alarming noises. Pieces falling from dash exposing wires in driver footwell. Bundles of wires coming up from storage area below driver where driver would want to rest his/her feet. Recalled solenoid not replaced. Unusable right side fuel filler. No 2016 owner manual - 2015 version supplied. Updating documentation is getting more and more behind. Front end not aligned. Electric panels mounted upside down. Neutral open from breaker box to Inverter/Converter


Warranty through dealer
Should have been on the road the last two weeks, but waiting for approval from Thor and then wait for parts. Waiting for approval from Thor for missing seatbelt even though I have Thor drawing showing it added on 3/2015 when they moved it from rear facing to forward facing. Same wait time with Lippert control panel blinking leveling jack motor short. Dealer was able to quickly replace solonoid (under recall) and open neutral wiring and shades that fell down.

[ChallengerRN]

Originally Posted by Robtx

Flawed design:
My Palazzo 33.2 is out of balance with front left 600+ pounds heavier than the right, and the right rear 1000+ pounds heavier than the left causing out of level. With the 3 point air suspension adjustment Freightliner was unable to level the vehicle. The right rear carries the house and chassis batteries and a small slide with drawers closet and dressing table, balanced on the left by the DEF tank and open space. Available interior storage is located on heavy corners and using it makes the out of balance worse!


Thor advertises the low clearance height of 12 feet but does not advertise the nose is close to the ground you are likely to damage it eventually.

Converter float charging at 12.9 volts. 13 volts required to retract jacks (assumes other jack problems are fixed).


Thor support:
First long trip with crazy jack behavior requiring jack retract with drill and no access to drill to pump motor without 90 degree drill attachment and blind access to valves with Allen wrench plus electrical and shades falling off 1332 miles from home and 1 hour from Thor. End off June. Thor says we can make an appointment for AUGUST! I opined Thor support must be under staffed. Got 10 minute lecture including how dare you want to cut in front of people who made July appointments last April. How do you spell UNDER STAFFED SUPPORT? Business model = “Make support so painful customer will do the repair themselves.” On the other hand if you manage to get contact information to bypass the concierge you can jump the queue – if Thor can find a contractor willing to do the work.

Shoddy build:
Way too much to list here but included missing seat belt, shades falling down, debris falling out of A/C vents and 3 rail slide that makes very alarming noises. Pieces falling from dash exposing wires in driver footwell. Bundles of wires coming up from storage area below driver where driver would want to rest his/her feet. Recalled solenoid not replaced. Unusable right side fuel filler. No 2016 owner manual - 2015 version supplied. Updating documentation is getting more and more behind. Front end not aligned. Electric panels mounted upside down. Neutral open from breaker box to Inverter/Converter


Warranty through dealer
Should have been on the road the last two weeks, but waiting for approval from Thor and then wait for parts. Waiting for approval from Thor for missing seatbelt even though I have Thor drawing showing it added on 3/2015 when they moved it from rear facing to forward facing. Same wait time with Lippert control panel blinking leveling jack motor short. Dealer was able to quickly replace solonoid (under recall) and open neutral wiring and shades that fell down.

Wow-- I don't feel as bad now. I had problems--but not all those!!

But I don't think I saw where you answered the question Robtx !!

Would you buy a Palazzo again ?

And I do feel sorry for you. There are for sure better coaches out there in or near the same price range.

Russell

[Robtx]

Originally Posted by ChallengerRN

But I don't think I saw where you answered the question Robtx !!

Would you buy a Palazzo again ?

Russell

The answer is hiding in the title line of my reply. ;-) "NO! I would have kept the old one and be on the road."

[BobMontgomer]

Originally Posted by Robtx

The answer is hiding in the title line of my reply. ;-) "NO! I would have kept the old one and be on the road."

So did you damage the front end of your coach? If so, how? Did insurance cover it?

[Robtx]

Originally Posted by BobMontgomer

So did you damage the front end of your coach? If so, how? Did insurance cover it?

No. Did scrape the front when weighed at Escapees in Livingston Texas. Person doing the weighing said no coach had ever dragged the front end.


The front cap would not close properly when it was on the dealer lot. The dealer “fixed” it by putting two draw latches on the bottom. Kinda crude, but keeps the “hood” snug. Reduces clearance by another 3/8 inch or so.

[BobMontgomer]

Originally Posted by Robtx

No. Did scrape the front when weighed at Escapees in Livingston Texas. Person doing the weighing said no coach had ever dragged the front end.


The front cap would not close properly when it was on the dealer lot. The dealer “fixed” it by putting two draw latches on the bottom. Kinda crude, but keeps the “hood” snug. Reduces clearance by another 3/8 inch or so.

We met a couple with a new Palazzo at the WalMart here in Cody a few days ago. We told them we were camping at a local state park and they drove out there and camped for a day. In our conversations, they told us how she got off the freeway for fuel and started up a driveway into the gas station there and hit the front end because of the low clearance. The entire front cap had to be replaced. The cost was $10,000! I am glad they had insurance (but for how long who knows.) Somewhere in Wyoming their emergency escape window fell out. As you know it is on the drivers side toward the back. They didn't even know it fell out until they stopped. Maybe it was windy...I didn't ask but they said Thor was arranging to get a new one put in asap. I gave them the phone number of the closest Thor dealer, which is Bretz RV in Billings MT (100 miles away.) The next day they were off to the Custer Battle Field in Montana. I hope Bretz will help them, but generally they only work on what they sell when it comes to warranty work. Other than what I am posting they really love their Palazzo but I must admit the low front end bothers me.

[ABrask]

Sad to hear about experiences like Robtx have had. Feel sort of guilty sitting here in ours sipping ice tea and dozing off in the lounger. We just love ours and seem to have escaped all of the horrible things some people report. I did make my way around the coach tightening screws and double checking fluids/controls this morning...something I do regularly when we travel. Perhaps that has help us avoid having things fall apart on us. I was taught to do this by my brother-in-law who has a half-million dollar palace of his own, but does the same thing on his. I did have the bad relay reported by others, but simply ordered and replaced on my own. It wasn't worth the hassle of taking it to Thor or a dealer, and I tend to avoid them with the same attitude I have about doctors and hospitals. ;-). We're doing another 7k miles in ours over the next couple of months, and I'll report in if anything changes our enthusiasm level. For now, four more hours to "scotch o'clock." Life does not suck, and I'm not going to let a loose screw or two get between me and a big, beautiful country.

[BobMontgomer]

Originally Posted by ABrask

Sad to hear about experiences like Robtx have had. Feel sort of guilty sitting here in ours sipping ice tea and dozing off in the lounger. We just love ours and seem to have escaped all of the horrible things some people report. I did make my way around the coach tightening screws and double checking fluids/controls this morning...something I do regularly when we travel. Perhaps that has help us avoid having things fall apart on us. I was taught to do this by my brother-in-law who has a half-million dollar palace of his own, but does the same thing on his. I did have the bad relay reported by others, but simply ordered and replaced on my own. It wasn't worth the hassle of taking it to Thor or a dealer, and I tend to avoid them with the same attitude I have about doctors and hospitals. ;-). We're doing another 7k miles in ours over the next couple of months, and I'll report in if anything changes our enthusiasm level. For now, four more hours to "scotch o'clock." Life does not suck, and I'm not going to let a loose screw or two get between me and a big, beautiful country.

I too think the Palazzo is a nice coach. I am a little concerned about the ground clearance on the front end and wonder if it is a real problem or simply some not realizing they have to be very careful going up a steep driveway etc. Please continue to post what you think as your trip continues...
Bob

[ChallengerRN]

I would not be too concerned about the low clearance. When I had mine I was very aware of that. Many times I would angle into a slope or drop off.

Fairly common to drag the front a bit but never to the point that it hurt anything. Just go slow ??

Russell.

[Bosty]

After 8 months of ownership and 5,000 miles later, yes I would buy my 2016 35.1 again in a heartbeat!!!

[RV8]

Originally Posted by ABrask

Sad to hear about experiences like Robtx have had. Feel sort of guilty sitting here in ours sipping ice tea and dozing off in the lounger. We just love ours and seem to have escaped all of the horrible things some people report. I did make my way around the coach tightening screws and double checking fluids/controls this morning...something I do regularly when we travel. Perhaps that has help us avoid having things fall apart on us. I was taught to do this by my brother-in-law who has a half-million dollar palace of his own, but does the same thing on his. I did have the bad relay reported by others, but simply ordered and replaced on my own. It wasn't worth the hassle of taking it to Thor or a dealer, and I tend to avoid them with the same attitude I have about doctors and hospitals. ;-). We're doing another 7k miles in ours over the next couple of months, and I'll report in if anything changes our enthusiasm level. For now, four more hours to "scotch o'clock." Life does not suck, and I'm not going to let a loose screw or two get between me and a big, beautiful country.

Telling some one who is having major issues with their MH that you have avoided issues by adjusting fluid levels and tightening screws is counterproductive and really a slap in the face. You are fortunate to be one of the lucky ones who have avoided the big problems. There are plenty of us out there who have not been so lucky. Attention to screws and fluids would not have solved any of the 10 pages of documented problems with our Palazzo. And that goes especially for our slide which was replaced four times, twice by the factory. OBTW Has your brother in law explained how to adjust awnings? Notice that yours is not tilted to allow for proper water drainage. Have a great trip, travel safe and may you have zero SNAFUs.

[ABrask]

Originally Posted by RV8

Telling some one who is having major issues with their MH that you have avoided issues by adjusting fluid levels and tightening screws is counterproductive and really a slap in the face. You are fortunate to be one of the lucky ones who have avoided the big problems. There are plenty of us out there who have not been so lucky. Attention to screws and fluids would not have solved any of the 10 pages of documented problems with our Palazzo. And that goes especially for our slide which was replaced four times, twice by the factory. OBTW Has your brother in law explained how to adjust awnings? Notice that yours is not tilted to allow for proper water drainage. Have a great trip, travel safe and may you have zero SNAFUs.

Never said your (or anyone else's) slide problems or major issues would be solved by tightening screws. On the other hand, your conclusion...that Thor sucks...is a result of your experiences with your particular coach, and my conclusion...that the Palazzo is a pretty good product for the money...is based on my experiences with my coach. I fully understand how frustrating it is to be stuck with a lemon. I had a Subaru years ago that pretty much biodegraded in the first year I owned it. I, too, didn't have a whole lot good to say about that company for many years. I came to recognize, however, that many folks have had a very good experience with their's, and I just needed to get over it. I probably wouldn't by one for myself, but I don't expect everyone else to hate their's just because I hated mine.

The tone of your reply shows you've missed the most important point of my post, however. And that is, no matter what problems I might have with my Palazzo, those problems will not keep me from recognizing I am damn lucky to be able to afford one in the first place, and I'm not going to let problems or anything else keep me from enjoying RVing. I was diagnosed with cancer early last year (sort of the ultimate 'part failure), and the experience has taught me that anger or a pre-occupation with what's wrong with my body and my life is ultimately just a waste of precious time and energy. We will have a great trip, and we certainly will pray that it is safe and uneventful. Should we experience a SNAFU, however, we'll simply have another experience to add to the story of our adventure.

As for the snarky comment about the tilt of the awning, a careful examination of the picture will reveal that it was sunny out and it had simply been extended for shade earlier that afternoon.

I sincerely hope you're able to unload your Palazzo and get on with your life.