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Old 12-15-2017, 01:19 PM   #1
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4 x 6V vs. 2 x Lithium

As I'm impatiently awaiting the arrival of our new TT I have to make a decision about batteries.

The trailer was ordered with 2 160W Zamp panels + controller, and the 4 battery tray option.

My question for the experts: Am I better off ordering 2 lithium batteries, 2 6V batteries, or will 4 6V batteries serve us better?

There are lots of positives about the lithium batteries (except price but I can deal with that), one of which is the lighter weight. I worry that 4 6V batteries will drive the tongue weight up.

Our previous TT had the same 320W Zamp set up paired with 2 6V batteries from Costco. It served us well this summer when traveling around Washington state including 6 nights in Mt. Rainier, but the batteries were getting weak by the end of the stay.

Would 2 12V lithium batteries be an upgrade on 2 6V batteries?
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Old 12-15-2017, 01:59 PM   #2
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I think I would put the cash towards either more solar or a small generator to better top off the 6 volts. That would make them last longer and at $85 each they are so much easier to replace when they need it. Lithiums are great but the price is ridiculous now. In a few years when the price is better they may make more sense.

How were you charging the 6 volts? I am surprised that they were getting weak after just one season. Many people report getting 5 or more seasons before they start showing signs of needing replaced. 320 watts of solar is not much without 2 or 3 hours of bulk charging each day. Doesn't take much more than a little furnace time to use all the solar will give even if no trees or clouds slowing things down.
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Old 12-15-2017, 02:14 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by keymastr View Post
I think I would put the cash towards either more solar or a small generator to better top off the 6 volts. That would make them last longer and at $85 each they are so much easier to replace when they need it. Lithiums are great but the price is ridiculous now. In a few years when the price is better they may make more sense.

How were you charging the 6 volts? I am surprised that they were getting weak after just one season. Many people report getting 5 or more seasons before they start showing signs of needing replaced. 320 watts of solar is not much without 2 or 3 hours of bulk charging each day. Doesn't take much more than a little furnace time to use all the solar will give even if no trees or clouds slowing things down.


^^ yes.

Once you've saturated roof space with solar and bought (or budgeted for) the best controller and inverter/charger that makes sense for you only then should you consider lithium. If you can't top off the lithium or even get the power out faster than FLA, why bother?
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Old 12-15-2017, 03:10 PM   #4
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I have a question about Lithium’s for a trailer. I know on smaller Lithium batteries you can’t charge them all the time or they will swell up and explode. So if you are full time hooked up, and the inverter is working on keeping the batteries up, with the same thing happen to the larger Lithium’s?
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Old 12-15-2017, 03:13 PM   #5
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Its all about capacity and depth of cycle.

2, 6 volt GC2s will give you 220 AH, 4, 6 volt, 440 AH.

If you use 80% of the capacity, between each recharge, you will be able to do that 500 times with flooded acid deep cycle batteries. Discharge then to 50% capacity, you can do it 1200 times.

You haven't said how many AH the lithiums have, but with the same AH capacity of Lithium batteries, as flooded batteries, you can do that 2 or 3000 times. They have longer life.
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Old 12-15-2017, 03:14 PM   #6
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I didn't express that too well. It's not that the batteries were bad, it's that they weren't getting charged as much, or to the same level, as the first few nights.

Would 4 batteries be overkill with a 320W system?
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Old 12-15-2017, 03:35 PM   #7
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What struck me is the fact that they can be discharged to 0% with no loss, and recharged to whatever percentage with no damage. That and the fact that they are maintenance free and can potentially go through 5 times the cycles, meaning that over the life span they are actually not more expensive, just the initial cost.

This is what I was thinking of ($949 each):

https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop...cycle-battery/

Free Ground Shipping in the US
100 Amp Hour, 12 Volt Battery
LiFePO4 Chemistry
3000- 5000 Cycles
100 Amp Continuous Current
200 Amp Surge Current (30 Seconds)
1/2 second surge for higher loads
Drop in Replacement for Lead Acid Batteries
Acceptable Voltages 14.4 – 14.6 for bulk charging
3 Year Warranty
Designed and Assembled in the USA
12.75 x 6.875 x 9 (L x W xH)
29 lbs
3/8″ x 1″ Bolt set included
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Old 12-15-2017, 03:36 PM   #8
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Maybe it's overkill and I'm just too excited about the new trailer
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Old 12-15-2017, 04:04 PM   #9
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I have the same solar setup with 4 x 6GCs. no problem keeping them charged up, going into our third season with them. We do have a genny for charging up when are in forested areas. Can't comment on tongue weight as we have a fiver and a rather large truck.
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Old 12-15-2017, 05:15 PM   #10
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Lithiums have some attractive attributes, but the cost and not being able to charge them below freezing are definite drawbacks. Cutting the weight by 2/3s would be sweet, though.
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Old 12-15-2017, 05:39 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by GoLeafsGo View Post
I didn't express that too well. It's not that the batteries were bad, it's that they weren't getting charged as much, or to the same level, as the first few nights.

Would 4 batteries be overkill with a 320W system?
I don't think so. I have 8 batteries and 675 watts of solar since 2008. We live off grid for the whole Florida winter, with very little generator charging.

4 hours of generator charging every 3 days or so, in the shortest days or the year.
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Old 12-15-2017, 06:16 PM   #12
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Lithiums have some attractive attributes, but the cost and not being able to charge them below freezing are definite drawbacks. Cutting the weight by 2/3s would be sweet, though.
We live in Southern California and camp all of July (mostly in the PNW), Thanksgiving (southern Utah), and Spring Break (desert). The only time it gets cold is Thanksgiving, but we've avoided freezing temperatures in the last three years. Also, we usually look for full hook-up places at Thanksgiving and boondock in the summer and spring...long winded way to say that charging below freezing is not an issue for us.

Here's what's making me think about it:

Lithium vs. Lead Acid
Usable Capacity 100 Ah vs. 100 Ah
Weight 29 lbs vs. 144 lbs
Warranty 3 years vs. 1-2 years typically
Origin Made in USA vs. ???
Lifetime Capacity 300,000 Amp Hours vs. 30,000 Amp Hours
Upfront Cost $949 vs. $450
Cost/Ah 0.35 cents / Amp-hour vs. 1.65 cents/Amp-hour
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Old 12-15-2017, 06:19 PM   #13
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Sorry, the chart didn't "translate", but you get the picture.
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Old 12-15-2017, 10:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLeafsGo View Post
We live in Southern California and camp all of July (mostly in the PNW), Thanksgiving (southern Utah), and Spring Break (desert). The only time it gets cold is Thanksgiving, but we've avoided freezing temperatures in the last three years. Also, we usually look for full hook-up places at Thanksgiving and boondock in the summer and spring...long winded way to say that charging below freezing is not an issue for us.

Here's what's making me think about it:

Lithium vs. Lead Acid
Usable Capacity 100 Ah vs. 100 Ah
Weight 29 lbs vs. 144 lbs
Warranty 3 years vs. 1-2 years typically
Origin Made in USA vs. ???
Lifetime Capacity 300,000 Amp Hours vs. 30,000 Amp Hours
Upfront Cost $949 vs. $450
Cost/Ah 0.35 cents / Amp-hour vs. 1.65 cents/Amp-hour
Just googled lithium vs golf cart batteries and although lithium is a superior product, the numbers I read is they are 10 times more expensive. I have no comment regarding the other figures on your chart. I will let others who know a lot more than me comment about these things.

My question is, if lithium is 1/5th the cost per AH, is 1/5th the weight, has double the warranty, is made in the states, has 10X the lifetime AH, is only double the cost of golf cart batteries, why don't we have a flood of folks from the RV and golfing industry beating down the doors of the lithium battery manufacturers? Something doesn't add up.

Dave
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