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Old 12-31-2016, 12:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBZYA View Post
I plan on removing the furnace and installing one or two of these,
Planar Heaters. Diesel Air Heater PLANAR 4DM-12 (-24)
This way I can make a plenum to unitize the factory ducting and keep the tanks warm. Also very low consumption with diesel and low amp draws.
LBZYA
I had thought about doing the same thing.

However because the heat out put of those PLANAR 4DM-12 diesel air heaters is 3,200-10,500 BTU... I would need 4 to equal the heat my Suberban SF-42F propane furnace provides.

Unfortunately $3,584, ($896 X 4), is way above my pay grade.
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Old 12-31-2016, 07:26 PM   #30
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Keep in mind that these RV furnaces are very inefficient and largely over-sized for the application. Like a heat pump and multistage furnace its more efficient to have the heater run for longer periods of time with lower BTU's than to have short bursts of heat. As it stands now my Honeywell Vision Pro thermostat cant read the room temperature fast enough and will usually read 4 to 5 degrees higher before shutting down. Even with it set at 0 swing. Also, the listed BTU's is the input BTU's so the output BTU's of your Suburban furnace is actually listed as 32000 BTU's.
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Old 12-31-2016, 08:26 PM   #31
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LBZYA I wonder if it would be better to just install one of those diesel heaters as an auxiliary heat source. Then if it became overwhelmed on a really cold night you would still have the factory propane heat as a backup. I wonder if with good tank heater pads and pipe insulation one could stop pumping heat down into the tank area and then out into the cold. Perhaps a diverter valve on the tube that goes into the tank area so you would only send heat down there on really cold nights. I really like the looks of that diesel heater and the price is reasonable for what it is.
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:10 PM   #32
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I thought about that. I am really looking for more efficiency when dry camping. My plan is to install two units and use the Honeywell thermostat to run the two heaters in stages. One heater will be the constant source of heat and the second heater will be the back up for more heat. Just like a residential two stage furnace. I know a guy that put one of these heaters in his truck camper and it is very quiet and nice even heat.
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:44 AM   #33
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FWIW - my thoughts - Your propane furnace runs around 80% or better combustion efficiency. (Old numbers.) It might be higher than that considering they are feeding plastic distribution ducts. (Part of the way to increase combustion efficiency is to blow more air past the heat exchanger so the heating air is cooler but captures more BTU's due to volume.) It has to be sized big enough to work for the coldest design temperature where it will run 100%. Given the losses in most RV's that is probably not much below freezing unless you have an arctic package. Switching to an oil fired unit you will need to provide a combustion air inlet and exhaust for each unit plus an oil tank. You will be filling your tank every day or two or need a large tank outside. That is a lot of money for one unit and quite a bit more to add 2 or 3 additional heaters to make up for the BTU rating you need. All that to make up maybe a 10% difference in combustion efficiency. You will lose the distribution ducting because the blower in that type of unit does not produce enough pressure to feed duct work. If you add a blower and plenum to capture the warm air you second blower puts your efficiency back to at or less than the gas unit. All in all it looks like a lot of money for not much, if any, gain. OTOH anybody looking to buy the unit from you will have second thoughts over doing it.
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Old 01-01-2017, 07:52 AM   #34
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The thing I like about the Planar diesel heaters, is the diesel fuel source. If on some diesel pushers without hydronic heating, they offered the Planar heaters instead of propane, the advantage would be the 100 gallon diesel tank to draw from while parked meaning longer stays before refueling vs propane. No explosion hazard with diesel fuel either, and no restrictions going through tunnels.
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Old 01-01-2017, 08:39 AM   #35
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I installed a diesel heater in my boat. We obviously don't boat in sub freezing waters but we love it on the cool 40 to 50 degree nights.

Ours is a Wallas 10,500 BTU unit, in a 35 ft trawler with lots of air leaks. It is ducted to the salon, aft cabin and galley with 3 inch ducting. The blower fans are basicly computer cooling fans.

Fuel consumption on high is .078 US gallons per hour. That's less the 2 gallons in a 24 hours. It has a fuel pump and draws off our main 500 gallon fuel tank. It draws about 9 amps on start up. After 8 minutes, the glow plug goes out and it runs at max fan @ 2 amps, until it warms up the cabins and then starts tapering down, after a half hour or so.

It is thermostaticly controlled so we set it and forget it. If it gets too warm, there is a " Sun Saver " sensor they shuts the unit down.

The double wall, 1 1/2 inch, exhaust flex pipe draws fresh air in and hot gases out. The heater will fit almost anywhere as you can see in the picture. Its behind a built in couch.

Don't give up on your plan for a diesel heater.

If I had a diesel MH and did long term boondocking, I would consider installing one myself.
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:54 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
I installed a diesel heater in my boat. We obviously don't boat in sub freezing waters but we love it on the cool 40 to 50 degree nights.

Ours is a Wallas 10,500 BTU unit, in a 35 ft trawler with lots of air leaks. It is ducted to the salon, aft cabin and galley with 3 inch ducting. The blower fans are basicly computer cooling fans.

Fuel consumption on high is .078 US gallons per hour. That's less the 2 gallons in a 24 hours. It has a fuel pump and draws off our main 500 gallon fuel tank. It draws about 9 amps on start up. After 8 minutes, the glow plug goes out and it runs at max fan @ 2 amps, until it warms up the cabins and then starts tapering down, after a half hour or so.

It is thermostaticly controlled so we set it and forget it. If it gets too warm, there is a " Sun Saver " sensor they shuts the unit down.

The double wall, 1 1/2 inch, exhaust flex pipe draws fresh air in and hot gases out. The heater will fit almost anywhere as you can see in the picture. Its behind a built in couch.

Don't give up on your plan for a diesel heater.

If I had a diesel MH and did long term boondocking, I would consider installing one myself.
These are the testimonials that people need to here. There is a reason why you don't see RV furnaces in boats. I am considering the Wallas myself. I really like that it runs at 2 amps after it starts. Aw, yes and it sips fuel. I may have to save a bit more money but Walls is a much better unit for sure.
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Old 01-01-2017, 11:10 AM   #37
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I did not know you could get radiant floor heat in some coaches. I would be interested in how it works, if it is electrically resistant wire or if they went with the more complex but off grid capable heated water route.
My heated tile floor is electrically heated. Have two thermostats to control it. Entegra uses hot water from the AquaHot to heat their floors but they've had LOTS of problems with it.
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Old 01-01-2017, 11:11 AM   #38
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The ABYC doesn't allow unattended propane devices.

Heat, hot water and fridges that run on propane are not approved. A gas stove is ok because they figure you are there using it.
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Old 01-01-2017, 11:17 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
I installed a diesel heater in my boat. We obviously don't boat in sub freezing waters but we love it on the cool 40 to 50 degree nights.

Ours is a Wallas 10,500 BTU unit, in a 35 ft trawler with lots of air leaks. It is ducted to the salon, aft cabin and galley with 3 inch ducting. The blower fans are basicly computer cooling fans.

Fuel consumption on high is .078 US gallons per hour. That's less the 2 gallons in a 24 hours. It has a fuel pump and draws off our main 500 gallon fuel tank. It draws about 9 amps on start up. After 8 minutes, the glow plug goes out and it runs at max fan @ 2 amps, until it warms up the cabins and then starts tapering down, after a half hour or so.

It is thermostaticly controlled so we set it and forget it. If it gets too warm, there is a " Sun Saver " sensor they shuts the unit down.

The double wall, 1 1/2 inch, exhaust flex pipe draws fresh air in and hot gases out. The heater will fit almost anywhere as you can see in the picture. Its behind a built in couch.

Don't give up on your plan for a diesel heater.

If I had a diesel MH and did long term boondocking, I would consider installing one myself.
Actually most high end DP's have the hot water system. Diesel and electric heater with hot fluid piped to heat exchange units in the main area and also in the wet bay. My 600-D AquaHot has two 2000 watt electric elements and the diesel burner is 65,000 btu's.
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Old 01-01-2017, 03:04 PM   #40
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FWIW - my thoughts - Your propane furnace runs around 80% or better combustion efficiency. (Old numbers.) It might be higher than that considering they are feeding plastic distribution ducts. (Part of the way to increase combustion efficiency is to blow more air past the heat exchanger so the heating air is cooler but captures more BTU's due to volume.) It has to be sized big enough to work for the coldest design temperature where it will run 100%. Given the losses in most RV's that is probably not much below freezing unless you have an arctic package. Switching to an oil fired unit you will need to provide a combustion air inlet and exhaust for each unit plus an oil tank. You will be filling your tank every day or two or need a large tank outside. That is a lot of money for one unit and quite a bit more to add 2 or 3 additional heaters to make up for the BTU rating you need. All that to make up maybe a 10% difference in combustion efficiency. You will lose the distribution ducting because the blower in that type of unit does not produce enough pressure to feed duct work. If you add a blower and plenum to capture the warm air you second blower puts your efficiency back to at or less than the gas unit. All in all it looks like a lot of money for not much, if any, gain. OTOH anybody looking to buy the unit from you will have second thoughts over doing it.
Your thoughts are 100%. I'd add that everything is dependent on the temps that one wants to go out in and that shorter trailers require less circulation so a diesel heater or other type is an option. Like this one

Archives - Dickinson Marine | Dickinson Marine

The only diesel heater that I could find that would reduced the amp draw enough was a Wallace 30Dt. I borrowed a 30Dt test ran one with the temps at 33F using a cardboard door cutout on our 28' ORV. The test was a failure. The fan wasn't gong to move enough air to heat the trailer evenly let alone the (no insulation) basement. It took 3 1/2 hours to raise the temp in the trailer 30 degrees. The propane heater does it in +/- 30 minutes. The long recover time meant that it would take hours to recover the trailer temp when we let it drop (10 degrees) at night and when we are out during the day. In the end I gave up on an alternative heat source. If I was designing a system from scratch it would be in floor hot water.

On our latest trip in our 5th with temps between 30F and 12F we used our 2000W Honda and buried it in a snow pile to muffle the sound.
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One of the best cold weather tool we have is a Ambient Weather 8 channel thermometer.

Here is a picture with the inside trailer temps at 45F.

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Channel 1 = Black/Grey tanks/valves - these have R15 insulation
Channel 2 = Batteries
Channel 3 = FW tank/pump and front pass through
Channel 4 - Outside
Channel 5 = Back pass through

Here is another with the inside temps at 60F
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Old 01-01-2017, 05:01 PM   #41
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Considering you raised the temp. from 33 degrees, up 30 degrees in 3.5 hours, with around half the BTU output of a typical RV gas heater, I would say it was a successful test. And this was with an un-ducted temporary installation.

Along with that, you only used a quart of diesel fuel and around 7 AH of battery power.

I wonder if you had used the gas furnace to bring the RV up to temp, and shut it down, if the DT30 would have maintained a comfortable temp.

I would also suggest that with the low current draw and fuel burn of this style diesel heater that they be left on, while out for the day.
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Old 01-01-2017, 06:53 PM   #42
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Considering you raised the temp. from 33 degrees, up 30 degrees in 3.5 hours, with around half the BTU output of a typical RV gas heater, I would say it was a successful test. And this was with an un-ducted temporary installation.

Along with that, you only used a quart of diesel fuel and around 7 AH of battery power.

I wonder if you had used the gas furnace to bring the RV up to temp, and shut it down, if the DT30 would have maintained a comfortable temp.

I would also suggest that with the low current draw and fuel burn of this style diesel heater that they be left on, while out for the day.
The furnace in the ORV draws 6 amps....so 3Ah.

Running the Wallace to maintain the heat would be the ideal but the test was to determine how it would heat (28'Lx8'W x 9'H) 2,000cu/ft at single digit temps. There was too much involved ($$, tank, ducting, exhaust) and not enough gain from 1, for sure 2 and maybe 3 Wallace heaters.

The Honda 2000 (1/3 the cost of a 30Dt) uses $2 of gas/day with the furnace running and some movie time for the kids. It will also provide 110V heat if needed. Even without the furnace it is needed to keep the rest of the 12V system running as any solar would be covered in snow. It snowed 4 of the 6 days on our latest trip.
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