Community Forums

Natebert · 08-28-2015, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORVPDMAN

...
I would like to ask...have you seen this problem with any of the larger pantry/ward doors that come with three hinges??

No, my issues have been on most of the narrow/long overhead bin doors, at least so far.

It seems that its hard to get the catch to line up with the pin due to the flex in the hinges.

They never seem to line up just exactly right, like this (even after adjustment):

There is just too much flex in the hinges to get a nice solid contact when the doors close.

fisher99 · 08-28-2015, 03:42 PM

Natebert is absolutely correct. The long/narrow overhead doors are the worst offenders. Most of mine line up ok, but I've got some where you have to put upwards pressure on the door to line up the latch. I'm sure that contributes to loosening the screws over time. But I have found no way to adjust the door to line up the latch. I think I would have to fill the existing screw holes and re-drill from scratch. Makes me wonder whether these were misaligned when the trailer left the factory or whether the existing hinges simply aren't robust enough to support the long/narrow door, so they droop over time. I bought my 2013 WR 280RLS used so can't say whether this problem existed from the beginning or not.

Having said that, I do still have the "stripped screw hole" problem on doors that seem to align reasonably well. And as I mentioned before, I recently had the same problem on the 2' tall (by about 8" wide) door next to the microwave, so it isn't limited to the overhead doors. It just happens more often with those doors.

Maybe I need to institute a screw tightening program. Check and tighten all of the cabinet door screws every 10 camping days or something like that. Kind of a pain, but so is shimming the holes. Especially if you don't catch it right away and the hinge pulls completely off when someone yanks on the door.

TrollMeister · 08-28-2015, 11:07 PM

I also found i had to tighten all the screws on the drawer rails, both on the cabinet and on the drawers!

In the past i find that wooden golf tees work in larger screw holes but they split easily for finer holes.

Had to re tighten all the door latches on the upper cupboards too.

TrollMeister, wife n mud pig(yellow lab)
Wind River 2011. 23RKS
2012 Silverado 1500

wthesing · 09-06-2015, 01:12 PM

orvpdman,

Just my $.02.

Why doesn't ORV discontinue the old pin & knuckle type hinges once & forever, and eliminate the problems caused by road vibration & bounce? The more modern concealed hinges eliminate this problem. I am a soon to be retired master cabinetmaker, in business for over 46 years, so I know my stuff. A cocealed hinge uses a 32mm cup with doweled inserts that are bored into the doors with a hinge boring machine ( I have one). The mounting plates are screwed into the cabinet face frame edge. This results in support by the hinge cup, and the screws are on adjacent planes 90 degrees apart = 10x stronger. You will wind up with precision hinge placement and better cosmetic looks, as well as easier door mounting without error in assembling doors to cabinet frames. Just don't use the cheap Chinese or Korean hinges. Best choice would be "Salice" or "Mepla" brands. After install, the hinges are cam adjustable on x,y,& z axis to fine tune them. They do not cost too much more than the type you are using, and the benefits are huge.

I am at a loss to have not yet been able to fly out to Denver to view my 1st ORV product, but rest assured, I do scrutinize the cabinetry in all of the TT's that I have been able to see locally, and most of what I've seen has been JUNK !!!!

I see that "Roto torqed" cabinet face frames is advertised. Is this a cutesy name for pocket screws put in by a powered screw gun? Are the face frames hardwood? If so, what type of wood?
If they are, you should be using 5/8" # 6 screws for proper holding power in cabinets that are not bouncing over the roads. I use Bosch screwdrivers with clutches adjusted to the type of screw/wood being driven - NO STRIP OUTS !!!!
Another tip would be to use sheet metal screws rather than wood screws. The threads go the length of the screw, and are coarser with deeper threads, = more holding power.

to the guys with the loose screws, (not meant figuratively

)

Next visit to the supermarket, buy a package of bamboo barbecue skewers. Bamboo is very tough, and much harder than toothpicks or matchsicks (basswood). Clip off the right length with a pair of wire cutters or a nail puller, coat with any good wood glue sparingly, and tap into stripped out hole. (I use Tite Bond II glue in my shop - waterproof). Please try to keep length of dowel shorter than depth of hole so that you can "seat" it with a small nail set. Let dry for about 20 minutes then reset your screw. If you are not using a cordless driver, start a small (1/16" pilot hole for about 1/4" +. The bamboo & the glue will give you an anchoring point that is harder than the original wood. You may want to go to H-depot and get an automatic center punch ($6) to give you an easier start on centering your drill bits precisely.

Regards,

Bill

brulaz · 09-06-2015, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wthesing

...
Next visit to the supermarket, buy a package of bamboo barbecue skewers. Bamboo is very tough, and much harder than toothpicks or matchsicks (basswood). Clip off the right length with a pair of wire cutters or a nail puller, coat with any good wood glue sparingly, and tap into stripped out hole. (I use Tite Bond II glue in my shop - waterproof). Please try to keep length of dowel shorter than depth of hole so that you can "seat" it with a small nail set. Let dry for about 20 minutes then reset your screw. If you are not using a cordless driver, start a small (1/16" pilot hole for about 1/4" +. The bamboo & the glue will give you an anchoring point that is harder than the original wood. You may want to go to H-depot and get an automatic center punch ($6) to give you an easier start on centering your drill bits precisely.
...

Brilliant! Had no idea about Bamboo.
Thanks for the tip.

sprayman · 09-06-2015, 01:36 PM

drill a small hole, lets say 1/4", buy a 1/4" dpwel rod of hardwood. cut the dowel just short of the hole depth. glue the dowel into the hole. You will need a "vix bit" to drill a hole "vix bits" will center the hole when using the hinge
hole as a guide/ now insert the screw and don't over torque it.

Jim

wthesing · 09-06-2015, 01:48 PM

sprayman,

Not to contradict, but a 1/4" dowel can re strip with a small screw. The bamboo will split longitudinally as the screw enters. The fibers will wrap around the threads without enlarging the hole, and will provide a permanent fix. If the hole is a larger screw hole you can split another piece or double up the bamboo to accommodate the hole size. I have repaired many customers loose hinges in their kitchens over the years without callbacks.

sprayman · 09-06-2015, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wthesing

sprayman,

Not to contradict, but a 1/4" dowel can re strip with a small screw. The bamboo will split longitudinally as the screw enters. The fibers will wrap around the threads without enlarging the hole, and will provide a permanent fix. If the hole is a larger screw hole you can split another piece or double up the bamboo to accommodate the hole size. I have repaired many customers loose hinges in their kitchens over the years without callbacks.

ONLY used 1/4" as an example,.

Jim

wthesing · 09-06-2015, 02:17 PM

Okydoky !!

Natebert · 09-07-2015, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wthesing

orvpdman,

Just my $.02.

Why doesn't ORV discontinue the old pin & knuckle type hinges once & forever, and eliminate the problems caused by road vibration & bounce?
...
I see that "Roto torqed" cabinet face frames is advertised. Is this a cutesy name for pocket screws put in by a powered screw gun? Are the face frames hardwood? If so, what type of wood?
...
Regards,

Bill

+1 on the need for upgraded hinges!

Took it out again, and am going to have to rehang 3 doors after this trip.
Yes our pocket screwed cabinets leave LOTS to be desired for.
And they are using Melamine for all of the face frames.

The hardwood doors look like a band-aid put on a severed arm compared to the cabinets. They can't even get the texture/stain to match which comes off looking cheap in a 'premium' trailer (windriver/blackstone).

Going back for more warranty work after this trip (3rd time)...
* skirt is buckling and separating due to the heat of the mis-matched colors (black skirt/grey wall) and poor construction materials.
* ceiling is buckling and separating at seam strips due to poor craftsmanship when installing.
* wall is separating and buckling behind the counter due to who knows why
* bathroom door is now a full inch narrower than the opening and doesn't catch properly. (frame flexing?)
* shower is leaking where tub basin and shower wall backing meet behind the glass shower frame.
* slide out is now rubbing on 'premium' vinyl flooring when traveling.
* ottoman casters came up through the bottom/inside of the ottoman due to mis-placed staples during construction. (I thought that the dinette was supposed to be aluminum framed on the Windriver, but it's not.)

wthesing · 09-08-2015, 08:08 AM

This is why I have reservations about buying a 4 seasons trailer at least 1700 miles away. Melamine particle board for cabinet face frames is a big No-No for me. That is not even close to what the chinese imported kitchen cabinets are. I thought the Winnebago & Jayco plywood face frames were atrocious. It is strictly cost savings, not weight savings. Medium density particle board is 40 lbs. / cu. ft. Medium density MDF is 60 lbs. / cu. ft. SOLID MAPLE is 20+ lbs. /cu. ft.

NO WONDER YOUR SCREWS ARE COMING LOOSE !!!!!!
The compressed materials are not designed for holding power, and ANY CABINET MAKER WILL TELL YOU THIS!!!!! In my business, I only use solid hardwoods for face frames, and 3/4" CABINET GRADE plywoods with A face rating & # 1 or # 2 back - best two grades available.

This may be a deal breaker for me.

My suggestion to orvpdman:

Get the factory away from the junk materials. We'd rather pay more for 1st rate. Get the pride in workmanship flowing, rather than pushing the production quota.
In my many years in business, I have seen 1st hand many times, that when production is getting behind the 1st thing that disappears is quality control.

I am really disappointed in what I am now starting to read, and now will be laying back on my somewhat costly trip plans to Denver, Montana, & Oregon to make a purchase.

Get your act together!!!!

ORVPDMAN · 09-08-2015, 09:20 AM

No melamine here...

This is all wood...however not the 'hardwood' that we typically think of such as oak, maple, etc. it is a laminated pine product. We will be discussing the issue of hinges coming loose with the wider overhead doors. These hinges are fine if used properly. We may decide to change the problem doors to a top hinge rather than off the side.

brulaz · 09-08-2015, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORVPDMAN

No melamine here...

This is all wood...however not the 'hardwood' that we typically think of such as oak, maple, etc. it is a laminated pine product. We will be discussing the issue of hinges coming loose with the wider overhead doors. These hinges are fine if used properly. We may decide to change the problem doors to a top hinge rather than off the side.

I like that. And the cupboard doors on mine seem to be hardwood frame with plywood centres. No problem there.

But aren't many of the trim pieces are more like wrapped particle board or MDH? Especially the big facing boards around the slide and around the shelving at the head of the bed? I too was surprised that such heavy material was being used.

wthesing · 09-08-2015, 09:31 AM

After stewing over what I read over an hour ago I have to add this.

In my field, melamine face frames are considered BELOW builder grade cabinets.
The kind of "furniture" you buy at K-Mart, not on a "premium" trailer. Suggestion, at least upgrade to a poplar core plywood. It can be used for structural support, compressed materials are not, and never have been. The poplar plywood should be considered a bare minimum for builder grade cabinetry. Most BG cabinets still use hardwood (birch) face frames with mortise & tenon joints, compressed panels are used as such, end panels, cheap shelving, etc.

In past years, there were 3 well known kitchen cabinet mfgrs that I dealt with that placed production over quality control. They didn't listen. Eventually both myself & my distributor gave them the boot. One of them is now out of business.

My thoughts are now to look more closely at the only Arctic Fox that I can safely tow. Winnebago & Oliver are starting to look a little better even without the "OFF ROAD CHASSIS & 4 SEASON RATING, although Oliver has those, but it is a different (& expensive) construction. When I factor in the added costs of going out on a trip to see the ORV's, along with the cost of going to get it, 4 week shakedown run, etc. I think I'd rather put or save those dollars into something even better or more local. I hope that orvpdman shows my posts to his higher ups.

Bill