Community Forums

hclarkx · 01-16-2018, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1bigmess

My point is only that they can fade, which was exactly what I said, and nothing more.

Sorry to offend. Of course they can fade, but that doesn't help me decide to invest in them. In my case I need new axles because nobody makes rotors for them so they are going to be expensive. If you tell me they aren't much more fade resistant than drums, I'll stick with drums and just put new ones on every 12K miles presuming less fade if they are relatively fresh. My only experience with discs pushed to the limit was in drag racing. There they were a huge improvement over drums. But, going down a five mile long hill with an RV may be a different thing than coming down once from 120mph to zero in a 2500 lb car.

1bigmess · 01-17-2018, 12:15 AM

Everyone's experiences and needs will be different. I have a 3/4 ton diesel pickup with exhaust brake and pull a smallish trailer. I don't need to use the brakes at all to easily descend almost all hills. Drum brakes are fine for me. YNeedsMV.

Dale & Mark Bruss · 01-17-2018, 05:12 AM

Disc rotors expand as they get hot, expanding towards the brake pads. Brake drums expand away from from the brake shoes. That is why they take longer to fade.

Also, disc brake are self cleaning if they get wet. Drum brakes can capture water which hurts the braking action.

The biggest benefit to disc brakes is that they require no adjustments unlike drum brakes which the adjustments are only good for a couple of days.

brulaz · 01-17-2018, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1bigmess

Everyone's experiences and needs will be different. I have a 3/4 ton diesel pickup with exhaust brake and pull a smallish trailer. I don't need to use the brakes at all to easily descend almost all hills. Drum brakes are fine for me. YNeedsMV.

I'm in the same situation. The Exhaust brake was one of the main reasons I moved up to a diesel. Had too many failures with trailer brakes to fully trust them.

Brake Fade and over-heating was only one of the failures.

Electrical wiring breaks with no warning was another. Drove half way across the continent with only one brake once. Unless your brake controller detects a low amp draw, or you routinely check the amp draw while travelling, there's no way to know. Don't think disk brakes would fix this.

But the other issue we had, greasing of drum brakes because of a leaky seal, should be fixed by disks.

So far I haven't had any of these issues with the ORV trailer and RAM diesel.

V3600 · 01-17-2018, 06:43 AM

I don't feel the need to have disc brakes on my trailer. What I would like to see is ALL trailers equipped with self-adjusting drum brakes from the factory. Why can't the industry install them as standard? Oh yeah, they got to save a buck.

Non-adjusting drum brakes are dangerous because they don't get adjusted like they need. My manual says to adjust the brakes every three thousand miles. Who does that? I have triple axles and admit that I don't do that.

1bigmess · 01-17-2018, 10:10 AM

I like how people are trying to convince us that disc brakes are superior to drums.

News flash: this fact is not in dispute.

Some systems are adequate for the demands placed on them by the operator. Anyone that thinks I'm being ridiculous should send me your checkbook so I can be convinced that your way is the only way. [emoji38]

Cumminsfan · 01-17-2018, 03:12 PM

I tow 9000 lbs with a 2500 CTD. Never needed disks. The exhaust brakes is fantastic most of the time. Once in a while I may feel the need for a little more braking, but that seems to be more brake controller than the drum brakes themselves.
Now if I were towing heavy (7000-8000lbs) with a gasser then having disks could be a nice option. It really depends on what size drum brakes are on the trailer and how much the trailer weighs IMO.

cruzbill · 01-17-2018, 03:26 PM

Anyone notice that pickup trucks used to be drum only, then disc in front, drum rears, now 4 wheel discs? Same job to do on the older trucks as newer trucks. Same applies to travel trailers and fifth wheels. Now Lance is offering disc brakes on one of their trailers.

TT and 5ver suspension systems are archaic. Take a look at an old conestoga wagon, they used a leaf spring suspension just like 'modern' trailers. OK, the leaves were made of leather, but you get my drift. Even shock absorbers are not even standard. Archaic!

I did a disc brake swap on our 30' 5ver years ago after total brake fade on two big mountain grades. Scary beyond belief. Not hard to do the swap. Night and day difference. Traded the 5ver in on the MH 2 years ago. I'm not telling anyone what to do, just relaying my experience and stating the obvious.

TeJay · 01-17-2018, 04:14 PM

It's been explained very well but some just won't listen. All brakes will fade. What is brake fade? When any brake material gets hot enough the bonding agent will crystallize and the lining material becomes glazed or very smooth. Smooth linings don't generate enough friction to work effectively. Hence we have brake fade. The glazing that occurs from excessive heat can't be sanded off or removed since it changes the brake material down deep.

Fading or the glazing can and will happen with either drum or disc.

Drums are not as good as disc for two reasons. For years we had what was called "Self-energizing drum brakes. When the brakes were applied instead of just the tops of the curved lining being forced against the spinning drum the linings would rotate on the anchor pin at the top and were drawn up or wedges against the spinning drum. That self-energizing action did improve the stopping power of drum brakes by adding the wedging force and the curved brake linings meshed better with the curved drum.

However it was still the ARC of the lining against the ARC of the drum. That along with the inability of the drums to dissipate the built up heat caused drum brakes to GLAZE sooner than disc pads.

Drums just can't match the friction generated by disc brake systems. Disc pads have 100% contact area with great exposure to the moving air so less glazing.

Yes disc brakes are much better than drums. All sports cars of any sorts along with the entire racing industry has gone exclusively to disc brakes and have for years. If it works better than drums the use it.

As far as TT's One poster said they are "Archaic." That's one way of putting it. Most don't have shocks. Very few come with disc brakes and we know they are much better than drum. The drum brakes that they have are not always self-adjusting which has been around since the late 50's or early 60's. The spring shackle bushings are not bronze but plastic. We had one TT that wore out the plastic bushings in under 2,000 miles. The tires just barely carry the max weight.

Some call them Archaic I cal them,

" Built on the edge of destruction."

If you don't believe me head to some other forums like Forest River or Heartland and do a search for, "Axle Upgrades." After they have spent what they did for their rigs they will spend $6,000 to 12,000 and up for axle upgrades which includes (bronze) shackle bushings with wet bolts so they can grease, wheel bearings, bigger rims and tires that can handle the weight, disc brakes and even shocks.

Someone posted on a forum after reading my complaints with my TT. Here's what he said.

You're educated and taught automotive for 35 years. Why did you buy a TT if it was such a bad design?" Very simple answer!!

When was the last time you walked into any car/truck dealer expressing an interest in a purchase and asked the salesperson: Does this vehicle come with drum or disc brakes? Does it have shocks or is that an option?? If it has drum brakes they will be rear only. Are the rear drum brakes self-adjusting?? Can the tries carry the weight or do I have to upgrade them??

Most cars these days do not have grease fittings but most trucks will because they are usually going to do more hauling than cars.

Off Road · 01-18-2018, 08:04 AM

It seems to me that it’s obvious that disc brakes are superior, however they would add to the cost of a trailer and I don’t really need them. I have a Ram 2500 with the exhaust brake and have never felt out of control coming down any grade, even with the trailer at max weight and the truck with a quad in the bed. I just putt down the mountains without a worry. It is interesting that semi-trucks manage to come down steep grades with only having drum brakes. They just match their load and speed to the grade and take it easy coming down. Yes there are instances when they over speed and have wrecks but that is operator error or equipment being in poor condition not a lack of disc brakes. Even when I had a gas half ton I did fine. I just started slow, in a lower gear and never let the truck get going too fast. Disc brakes are a great option if someone wants to install them but not a must have for everyone.

Dale & Mark Bruss · 01-18-2018, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Off Road

It is interesting that semi-trucks manage to come down steep grades with only having drum brakes. They just match their load and speed to the grade and take it easy coming down.

Virtually every semi has a version of a Jacobson Brake system which provides far more braking power than an exhaust brake.

Second, there is no comparison of drum brakes on a semi/trailer compared to a RV or a pickup. They are far heavier, in proportion, to prevent drum expansion from heat.

Using a totally different system as a justification for not using disc brakes is just not valid.

TeJay · 01-18-2018, 10:10 AM

Mark is correct. It's not comparing apples to apples. Drum brakes if made more massive they will be able to absorb more heat without a negative effect on braking.

I always like real life experiences to illustrate to my students what was going on. A simple comparison of putting a needle and a 10 penny nail into a flame (which we all have done as kids). Which heats up quicker and WHY?

There are way to many variable. If you and your truck can deal with the weight then maybe the TT industry should offer options?? Many, many owners and trucks they use can't.

cruzbill · 01-18-2018, 10:22 AM

Anti-sway, anti-lock brakes. Why is it that USA is behind (way behind) Europe and Australia on this?

https://www.caravancampingsales.com....-coming-43356/

1bigmess · 01-18-2018, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeJay

There are way to many variable. If you and your truck can deal with the weight then maybe the TT industry should offer options?? Many, many owners and trucks they use can't.

Buyer beware. Always.

"This truck can tow 10,000 pounds."

"Your vehicle can pull any trailer on this lot."

Whose responsibility is it to know the truth?

Mine.