Fixed a few things yesterday

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by egwilly

Question: what makes the PD a better charger than the WFCO we have in our Glacier Peak. Why do folks tear them out and spend more money on another unit?
Is this really necessary to do? I've had both and never noticed any difference.

On paper, the spec for these two are similar. But from what I read, PD will truly give a 14.4v charge in boost mode initially when charging a partially discharged battery. WFCO claims the same but the WFCO8955 on my TR can only charges no higher than 13.6v no matter it's on shore power or Genny. With 14.4v, PD claims it can bring your battery to 90% level in 2-3 hrs. With 13.6v, it will take much longer.

[brulaz]

Originally Posted by egwilly

Question: what makes the PD a better charger than the WFCO we have in our Glacier Peak. Why do folks tear them out and spend more money on another unit?
Is this really necessary to do? I've had both and never noticed any difference.

Deep Discharge Lead acid batteries, like golf carts GC2s, need to be fully charged regularly. (Our solar tries to do a full daily charge.) To get a full charge the battery charger has to raise the Voltage up to around 14.6-14.9V (for 12V systems and depending upon temperature), and hold it there for a couple of hours or until the charge current drops to a small value.

Most people find that the WFCO never raises the V over 13.6V. So your batteries are never fully charged and will gradually sulfate and die an early death.

EDIT: Indiana beat me to it and mentions the faster charging as well. There are different Amp versions of charger. The ones with higher Amps can charge the batteries faster.

If you have a good solar system and charger, that may get the V up there for you, supplementing the WFCO.

So it's not necessary, but your batteries will appreciate it.

[egwilly]

So, with the 50 amp service that ORV installed in the GP, which PD charger would I need to install? Can the charging section be swapped without removing the entire 12 and 120 volt electrical system panel?

[Randy the sly old fox]

The 50A AC service is still bit of a mystery to me. I know that it is a 230V service much like your house - so it mainly affects the AC side of things and not the DC or charging side. I believe that the converter is attached to one leg of the AC service and does its normal job.

As far as the DC section goes, you do need to replace the DC board as the PD one has the switch and indicator for the Charge Wizard. From the videos I have watched the easiest way to do this is one wire/circuit at a time and move the wires and fuses from the old to the new board. You do not touch the AC side - except to wire in the new converter section.

I do find it interesting that a new PD charger insert costs more than the entire WFCO panel. I know that my WFCO is an 8955 so I will need a 55A PD replacement - the best price I have seen is over 200.00. I have also seen videos where the PD converter does indeed have three voltage levels - 14.6. 13.6 and 13.2. I have done random voltage checks on my WFCO and it always says 13.6. So maybe spending 200 to save my 300.00 batteries is a good deal.

I also watched a video where they replaced a converter from the 90's with a PD - a real world of difference.

[Highway 4x4]

Here is where I got mine;
Progressive Dynamics Converters
They really know what they sell. They can answer all your questions.

[brulaz]

You can also leave the WFCO alone, or just disconnect/turn off it's converter and use it as a backup.

And install a stand-alone "Deck Mount" ProgDyn charger closer to the battery.

But you'll need a 120VAC socket for it and need to run cables to the batteries.

Depending upon the location, an advantage is a shorter cable run to the batteries so less V loss, and less fan noise.

Depending upon your batteries (Trojan for example) 14.8V may be preferred over the standard 14.4V max. Prog Dynamics has a deck mount that does that: PD 9260C-14.8 60 Amp RV Converter/Charger

Dunno what rating the WFCO is in your trailer but a 55-60A version should be big enough to handle most situations.

[brulaz]

Originally Posted by Randy the sly old fox

...

I have done random voltage checks on my WFCO and it always says 13.6. So maybe spending 200 to save my 300.00 batteries is a good deal.
...

If you're also looking at getting a solar system with a good charger that can get up to 14.4-14.8V, the money might be better spent there. Of course if it rains all the time and you always camp where there's 120VAC ...

On the other hand, boondockers with 120VAC generators like the high amperage Prog Dynamics charger because they can force it into "bulk" charge at high amperage which reduces the time they need to run the genny.

Then, if they also have a solar charger, they use that to "top off" the batteries at 14.4-14.8V ("absorb" mode) which can be take a couple of hours and doesn't require high amperage.

Finally, there are folks who just don't worry about this and replace their batteries every few years. Or just use their portable car/boat battery charger.

[egwilly]

The panel board elect ratings are 120/240 Vac, 30 or 50 amp.
DC circuit is 12V, 250 amps max.
It's a WFCO WF9990 and maxes out the battery charge volts at 13.6 dc. I have a Trimetric installed and have never seen the voltage over that number, even with the batteries at 60% a couple of times.

I suspect that it is causing some stratification inside the cells. The WFCO will never get to bubbling the electrolyte enough to prevent it.

ORV installs these due to lower cost, and assuming the end user will be on shore power all the time. Not.

I will look into the unit Brulaz mentioned. I like the idea of leaving the orginal converter there for backup.

[Rickeoni]

I am one of those that has upgraded to a stand alone PD9260 and left the WFCO in place as a backup. Put the Charger in the pass through and hooked it directly up to the batteries with battery cables, this also eliminates any voltage drop on the run from the charger to the battery bank. 2 hours of gen time and let solar top off the 4 x 6volt GCs.

Going on 4 years with my current batteries and rarely see a number below 12.3 volts, running low consumption stuff. There is still significant voltage sag when running the microwave but rebounds quickly after zapping my coffee. I have run comparisons using the converters back to back and the WFCO never gets into Bulk mode where the PD goes to 14.4 volts quickly. Money well spent IMHO.

[egwilly]

Rickeoni: you have the rear kitchen GP, similar to ours except we have the rear living area.

How did you tap into the 120V ac needed to run the converter? Ours has no ac connections in the bay.

Thanks!

[Highway 4x4]

Originally Posted by egwilly

The panel board elect ratings are 120/240 Vac, 30 or 50 amp.
DC circuit is 12V, 250 amps max.
It's a WFCO WF9990 and maxes out the battery charge volts at 13.6 dc. I have a Trimetric installed and have never seen the voltage over that number, even with the batteries at 60% a couple of times.

I suspect that it is causing some stratification inside the cells. The WFCO will never get to bubbling the electrolyte enough to prevent it.

ORV installs these due to lower cost, and assuming the end user will be on shore power all the time. Not.

I will look into the unit Brulaz mentioned. I like the idea of leaving the orginal converter there for backup.

The ORV trailers that are being built now have the Progressive Dynamics units in them.

[egwilly]

It states that there are sellers like Amazon selling bogus unmarked boxes of PD converters. Who knew they are so good that there is a bootleg market for them! That is the Best Converters website.
No warranty if you buy from Amazon.

Quote:

Please Read: We have been notified by Progressive Dynamics, Inc. that many PDI converter products are being sold by unauthorized dealers on Amazon and auction type sites without serial numbers and not packaged in the correct boxes. Progressive Dynamics will not support warranty claims from products purchased on Amazon, Ebay or other similar auction sites. You can be assured from us that your PDI converter is packed in the original view pack box, and will have a serial number traceable back to Progressive Dynamics, Inc. If you have any questions, please contact PDI at 269-781-4241 Here is a link to Progressive Dynamics website and information about these unauthorized products. Progressive Dynamics Service Department

[Rickeoni]

Originally Posted by egwilly

Rickeoni: you have the rear kitchen GP, similar to ours except we have the rear living area.

How did you tap into the 120V ac needed to run the converter? Ours has no ac connections in the bay.

Thanks!

Since we almost exclusively dry camp, the charger is powered by the genn, and only gets used when we are in the deep dark woods, the solar tops off the batteries just fine if we park in the sun.

[brulaz]

Originally Posted by egwilly

...

How did you tap into the 120V ac needed to run the converter? Ours has no ac connections in the bay.
...

I can see the back-end of the 120VAC bedroom outlets in our pass-thru. So tapped into one of those and added an extra outlet for the battery charger.